Truth help: What is truth? - Help.com

You could look at my profile and see what I wrote about it — but don’t come back and insult me about it cuz I have a headache, thanks.

Truth is a part of an element of a fact.

:P Honestly I have no clue, but this post really made me think.

Spheres have the sound “fear” in them.

It’s easy if you use math …

☺ wrote:
The earth is approximately spherical.

Sorry, no burn on you, but someone could then say “pi is between 3 & 4″ sure … its easy to use math to post a truth.

correction

“Sphere” has the sound “fear” in it.

Michael Leibman wrote:
correction”Sphere” has the sound “fear” in it.

I like the first version better. :)

pi

florie wrote:

Michael Leibman wrote:
correction”Sphere” has the sound “fear” in it.

I like the first version better. :)

Is that true?

Michael Leibman wrote:
pi

florie wrote:

Michael Leibman wrote:
correction”Sphere” has the sound “fear” in it.

I like the first version better. :)

Is that true?

yup, I did.

Depends on your personality. I can perceive of a type of person who would be offended by that. No worries then.

do

rowass wrote:

Michael Leibman wrote:
You could look at my profile and see what I wrote about it

This makes sense but it wasn’t exactly what I was looking for.

Yes — I didn’t remember what it was… it was me self-conconsciously trying to speak “truth” while considering the idea of truth, which leads to all these examples of a true thing rather than discussing what truth itself is.

Truth is beyond reason.

Truth is a lisp for truce, like math is a lisp of mass. It is not really the unknowable absolute truth, just a peace treaty between our knowing mind and this existence we experience. True or false?

“Truth is not really the unknowable absolute truth,” you say?

it is true that i have a headache and that every sentence i type is the product of a mind with a really bad headache

florie wrote:
“Truth is not really the unknowable absolute truth,” you say?

I’d say that is true, but somewhat meaningless.

Michael Leibman wrote:

florie wrote:
“Truth is not really the unknowable absolute truth,” you say?

I’d say that is true, but somewhat meaningless.

Well it is what you said, in effect. :)

Why ISN’T truth the unknowable truth?

rowass wrote:

Michael Leibman wrote:
Truth is a lisp for truce, like math is a lisp of mass. It is not really the unknowable absolute truth, just a peace treaty between our knowing mind and this existence we experience. True or false?

This was what I was looking for.

I like this too. :)

Truth is something that you experience yourself - like hunger. No one can explain and make you understand what hunger is - unless you starve and experience it yourself.

Truth is an experience not an intellectual exercises.

My 2 pennies worth!

- Man Anonymous
http://www.makarajyothi.com

anonymom wrote:
Truth is something that you experience yourself - like hunger. No one can explain and make you understand what hunger is - unless you starve and experience it yourself.Truth is an experience not an intellectual exercises.My 2 pennies worth!- Man Anonymoushttp://www.makarajyothi.com

This is good, and seems the most true so far.

How do we agree on what truth is?

hmmm
zzz zz z z

Hi,

An experience needs an experiencer to validate its reality. Without an experiencer, the truth is irrelevant.

Man Anonymous.
http://www.makarajyothi.com

Can you always believe scientific measuring devices, can you believe your own senses?

☺ wrote:
For the most part we do not agree on what truth is. People have different ideas about what is true, and maybe everybody is wrong. Truth exists outside the human mind, and is greater than it.

So well put!

☺ wrote:
For the most part we do not agree on what truth is. People have different ideas about what is true, and maybe everybody is wrong. Truth exists outside the human mind, and is greater than it.

ay ay: “Truth is beyond reason.”

what i think -

the truth is that which turns out to be absolutely correct in the end.

it can only be judged as truth or not when all is said and done, but there is such a thing as it.

Can truth exist without falsehood?

If truth can change, was it true in the first place?

Shakeybritches wrote:
Can truth exist without falsehood?

sure. we just wouldnt have anything to compare it to, so it would all be the same to us.

Shakeybritches wrote:
If truth can change, was it true in the first place?

if one was to go by my definition, it cant be judged as truth if it still has time to change…

maybe not ken.

rowass wrote:
If truth does not change than howdo we.

beliefs change.

we are not made of truth. truth stays the same, we change.

Ken wrote:
…this made more sense in my head. Ignore my replies lol. I can’t find the right words tonight. Freakin communication skills

Me too!!! Difficult subject, also. :)

Could it be that truth became truth when falsehoods became falsehoods or vice versa?

Ken wrote:
I used to be much better at these things hehe. Can’t get my ideas out as well anymore. Think I am gonna have to leave this post to those who can write whatthey mean.

That’s not true Ken……lol
Hang around.

Ken wrote:
Can’t if I wanted to. Gotta sleep soon. You youngins(hehe) have fun with this thing. Maybe tomorrow, erm, latter today I will be able to write my ideas better. peace

Have a good one…….

Ken wrote:
Can’t if I wanted to. Gotta sleep soon. You youngins(hehe) have fun with this thing. Maybe tomorrow, erm, latter today I will be able to write my ideas better. peace

you aren’t a youngin???

the truth in that situation would be that the world is a sphere… i agree ☺

Ken wrote:
Can’t if I wanted to. Gotta sleep soon. You youngins(hehe) have fun with this thing. Maybe tomorrow, erm, latter today I will be able to write my ideas better. peace

He’s gotta be from the south.

http://help.com/post/159988-the-featu… - glimpse this first ken… you dont need to reply…

Dang, ever lived in the South?

im in the south… ish…

Wow. Ok, we say young un’s a lot down here in NC. That’s why I was wondering.

anonymom wrote:
Truth is something that you experience yourself - like hunger. No one can explain and make you understand what hunger is - unless you starve and experience it yourself.Truth is an experience not an intellectual exercises.My 2 pennies worth!- Man Anonymoushttp://www.makarajyothi.com

Nice site, Anonymous. Too bad you were anonymous though because you might not ever see this reply … if you didn’t manually subscribe and you happened to go to bed. There’s no way to get in touch with you either.

THISFIRE-Burning wrote:
im in the south… ish…

That’s all the way to Gulf states…that’s pretty south.

what does being in the south have to do with going to bed early?
… wait… now im getting off topic…

We name things because we need to communicate the difference in what we sense.
We say truth to differentiate it from falsehood.
We would not know truth as truth without falsehood.

So if there were no falsehood, there would be no truth (as it is known). It would be what it is.

we wouldnt know it for truth. but, if all ideas and things were correct, and without falsehood, that would just mean everything is true, correct?

i can imagine it. no one lies. it would just be a world without humans, save maybe one.

THISFIRE-Burning wrote:
i can imagine it. no one lies. it would just be a world without humans, save maybe one.

which one?

THISFIRE-Burning wrote:
we wouldnt know it for truth. but, if all ideas and things were correct, and without falsehood, that would just mean everything is true, correct?

Yes, but as you said we wouldn’t know it as truth.

☺ wrote:
Truth and falsehood both exist. It’s impossible to imagine a world without either of them.

Understood, one could not exist without the other.

uummm any one. cause they would have no other people to display anything false to.

THISFIRE-Burning wrote:
uummm any one. cause they would have no other people to display anything false to.

Ah, but he/she could lie to themself.

Shakeybritches wrote:

THISFIRE-Burning wrote:
uummm any one. cause they would have no other people to display anything false to.

Ah, but he/she could lie to themself.

definitely!! as he thinks he is his ego

i hope you at least got what i meant before you over analyzed that…

I think so … and I was analyzing, just taking a wild stab at the truth

Mankind has enough trouble trying to understand his own motives.

“wasn’t” analyzing

Ah, Grasshoppa’, I must go now,time to deliver the Monday edition.
You all have a good one……very good post, thanks Rowass, Shakey

what about a world where the truth is exactly what happens, and there are no humans? is that any better for an example?

the absolute truth would be the events that took place. the absolute truth could then exist without the falsehood to compare it to.

i think i see one of the problems with this discussion. i am talking about absolute truth in that what is actual is the truth.

im not talking about truth vs. lies that humans can speak.

I think ‘Truth’ exists only in the mind.What is true for others may not be true fo r another.so, its about belief’, If I believe I’m crazy I will start to believe that as truth.

THISFIRE-Burning wrote:
what about a world where the truth is exactly what happens, and there are no humans? is that any better for an example?the absolute truth would be the events that took place. the absolute truth could then exist without the falsehood to compare it to.i think i see one of the problems with this discussion. i am talking about absolute truth in that what is actual is the truth.im not talking about truth vs. lies that humans can speak.

Right, absolute Truth.

Felicity-{KIMKRISS} wrote:
I think ‘Truth’ exists only in the mind.What is true for others may not be true fo r another.so, its about belief’, If I believe I’m crazy I will start to believe that as truth.

Well, I believe your crazy too, just kidding.

And I also think thats why people argue about ‘Religions,beliefs.It is true for them,as a individual.

lol shakey b

z z z . . .

Perceptions can be wrong in animals too.
I think the truth may possibly be described as what existed from the beginning, and will last beyond the end………….that cannot be affected by anything or anyone, that is impervious to change. My poor attempt, but there it is.

Shakeybritches wrote:
Perceptions can be wrong in animals too.I think the truth may possibly be described as what existed from before the beginning, and will last beyond the end………….that cannot be affected by anything or anyone, that is impervious to change. My poor attempt, but there it is.

aaah.

i think that there must be 2 truths.

relative truth - this truth is the truth experienced by and individual. this is what you experience as truth, but may not be to others.
(which is what felicity is talking about)

absolute truth - this is the truth as concretely as possible. this truth cannot be changed by a persons experiences.

one example of absolute truth - what has happenned in the past. no matter what you wish had happenned, you cannot change time. these things happenned one way, and one way only. if we could go back and look, only ONE thing can be right. the absolute truth is what happenned.

one example of relative - beliefs. these are things that are within a persons mind. they can be true of this person because they think it is true. in this sense, they are not lieng. they are going on what they think is true. that is why its a truth. like if a person really thinks something, and is proven wrong, then the truth to that person was still what they though.

Good way to put it.
So how do you know if truth you believe in is relative or absolute?

by an* individual
lying*

im not sure if you can know.

This fire, I like your analysis best, And its ‘true.’lol.You expressed it when I couldn’t.Thankx :)

THISFIRE-Burning wrote:
by an* individuallying*im not sure if you can know.

Therefore it would all be relative until proven otherwise…..
How do you prove it otherwise…..lol
It sure does make me think

Relative truth,

☺ wrote:
I wouldn’t dignify a belief that is wrong with the word “truth.”

but how do you know it’s wrong

I think that is where it gets into what you believe, being your truth.
Absolute reality is like absolute truth, how to prove it.

You can also look at the moon and believe that it was put there to be an alien beacon.
How do you say that is not truth, or is truth.

☺ wrote:
Yes, it is often very difficult to find out what absolute reality is. But absolute reality is where truth resides, not in our fallible minds.

I agree

i like what i said, but i have to agree with a point here by ☺.

if its a truth, it has to be right. so, the only way that what ive defined as a relative truth, can truely be true is if it aligns with absolute truth.

the real question is indeed how to know what is absolute truth.

And no, I don’t think it is an alien beacon…lol
that’s the sun’s job…….lol

THISFIRE-Burning wrote:
i like what i said, but i have to agree with a point here by ☺.if its a truth, it has to be right. so, the only way that what ive defined as a relative truth, can truely be true is if it aligns with absolute truth.the real question is indeed how to know what is absolute truth.

I think you are backing up a little, if everyone believed absolute truth, there would be no relative truth.

… but still, i think the important one is the absolute truth.

if you want to know the truth, i find the relative side… unimportant. what you experience as true will not change anything other than your actions. and that is basically all in your head anyway.

i only gave a name to what some people where saying was truth.

and honestly, i meant to show how it didnt make sense within a few minutes.

Awesome discussion, I’m going to be late for work, smiley face guy from Mass., I can tell you are a deep thinker to some degree. Enjoyed the replies, this fire, do you and smiley face guy care if I add you as friends?

if you still want to, go ahead. ill add you, if you show up on the fan list.

THISFIRE-Burning wrote:
if you still want to, go ahead. ill add you, if you show up on the fan list.

I accidentally hit the wrong button,

☺ wrote:
Yes, it is often very difficult to find out what absolute reality is. But absolute reality is where truth resides, not in our fallible minds.

Can I add you to my friends list?

… he seems to have left (not sure)… his profile says you can…

THISFIRE-Burning wrote:
… he seems to have left (not sure)… his profile says you can…

ok, thanks. I accidentally hit the wrong button and clicked you off the fans list, might have to do it over, sorry

Wikipedia has an overview of “philosophies of truth”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth

Truth is completely abstract, just like lies. It doesn’t really matter if it’s the truth or not. The only thing that matters is wether or noth you believe it.

Truth may have characteristics and can be described. We can say “this is what truth truly is, and no, that is a false presentation of what truth is.”

Beyond that, I personally value speaking the truth in communication. Or perceiving in a way that I can understand the truth of another’s expression. Or of the expression of nature in the case of the relativism argument.

This is my biggest confusion — why aren’t people being as true to themselves, to each other, and to the nature of being and reality as they can in every moment. Or are they?

Michael Leibman wrote:
why aren’t people being as true to themselves, to each other, and to the nature of being and reality as they can in every moment. Or are they?

or, my first implied question “how much value do people place on knowing and communicating the truth, and why not more?”

I think it’s a subjective thing, that my mind is too tiny to grasp the bigger truth of every person’s apprehension and communication of absolute truth.

There can be no steadfast definition of truth; it has a different meaning to every different person, culture, creed, religion, or race in the world.

From a religious view, truth to a Christian is that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the light and only by asking him for salvation can you go to heaven. Try telling that to a devout Hindu, who believes that to reach Moksha, they must become fully aware of their ‘atman’ through the worship of Krishna, the eighth incarnation of Vishnu. To both, their beliefs are the “truth.”

The definition of truth directly correlates with trust; you are essentially trusting what you read, hear, or say to be the truth. Was I there for the War of 1812?

No.

Then how do I know it happened? I just have to trust what I hear and read; I have to trust the facts, even though facts can sometime prove inaccurate.

Say I had been around for the War of 1812; if I were to tell someone all about it, but they hadn’t been there, wouldn’t they be trusting what I say?

I guess I just discovered my definition of the truth. Keep in mind, MY definition.

Truth - a concept that describes the acceptance of facts and/or evidence supporting an event, an occurrence, or a belief and the circumstances surrounding it from an outside source, be it a person, book, or piece of concrete evidence.

Did I leave anything out?

hfbhrdkhgdfyk wrote:
omg. u people. truth is the opposite of lie. DUH!!! lol

True ;) but most of this discussion was about the fact that truth is also the opposite of falsehood. No joke. Seriously. Honestly.

Think about this one:

“It is no more than a moral prejudice that truth is worth more than appearance.”

Maybe a more important question than “What is truth?” is “Why do we need truth?”

We need truth to dissolve doubt like we need a tooth to chomp trout. Then when we outgrow a truth we offer it up to the truth fairy to get money for more trout.
It is all very simple on my planet.

Whatever you’re smoking, I need to get me some of that

perhaps this will help: http://www.thetruth.com

This is what I found about on net.

The meaning of the word truth extends from honesty, good faith, and sincerity in general, to agreement with fact or reality in particular. The term has no single definition about which the majority of professional philosophers and scholars agree. Various theories of truth continue to be debated. There are differing claims on such questions as what constitutes truth; how to define and identify truth; the roles that revealed and acquired knowledge play; and whether truth is subjective, relative, objective, or absolute.

Truth …

“…is the opposite of lies.”
“…is to tell the truth.”
“…differs from person to person.”
“…what is truth but what we believe to be truth?”
“I don’t believe that there’s one truth. There are so many different people, and there are so many different ways you can look at things. I don’t see how there could be just one truth.”

These quotes, giving vague descriptions of truth, point towards relativism - a doctrine instructing that truth and morality are relative and not absolute. Relativism asserts that what is accepted as truth is relative to a person’s situation or standpoint, and denies that any standpoint is uniquely privileged over all others.

If truth is relative, then absolute right and absolute wrong become doubtful and obscure. And if truth is relative, then only subjective and indefinite answers exist for the purpose and meaning of life. So is there any absolute or real truth in this complex and uncertain world?

A recent Barna Research Group survey on what Americans believe asked the question, “Is there absolute Truth?” Sixty-six percent of adults responded that they believe that “there is no such thing as absolute truth; different people can define truth in conflicting ways and still be correct.” Seventy-two percent of those aged 18 to 25 expressed this belief. In a recent series of more than twenty interviews conducted at random at a large university, people were asked if there was such a thing as absolute truth - truth that is true across all times and cultures for all people. All but one respondent answered along these lines:
“Truth is whatever you believe.”

“There is no absolute truth.”

“If there were such a thing as absolute truth, how could we know what it is?”

Somewhere waaaay back at the start of this people talked about pi, and as a vaguely new member I figured I’d say something about it.

Pi is an observable constant. When you measure it, it’s always the same, but the more you measure it the more there is to measure, until you realise that measuring it will never reveal an end, but instead an always increasing level of complexity and detail so you stop and get on with your life. Or you keep measuring and seeking your Truth, the end of the equation, ad infinitum.

This is Truth as I see it. Something that we can comprehend the start of, but never its end. We can become caught up in its detail, or we can accept that we will never fully understand it and just choose to live our lives as very best we can.

Hmm I would say the truth is the truth and never changes, truth is not facts like some people stated above, truth will always be true no matter what, I’ve been seeking the truth for a long time now and I must say the closer you get to truth, the more headaches you will have because it wont be the truth you want or know or see, but it will be true nonetheless and you will know its true, because deep down inside, we all know whats true

To the guy who tried to counter my statment, there is a difference between truth and reality. Truth deals with reality but it’s not reality. Truth is spoken written and thought. Reality just is. You can’t compare the two because Reality can’t be spoken any more than Truth can just exist. Perhaps a better way to explain it is Reality exists without us. Truth exists only because sentient beings who try to deal in Truths exist.

truth is not spoken written thought, it just is, no matter what, truth doesn’t rely on anything to make it the truth

rowass wrote:

☺ wrote:
If everybody in the world believes that the moon is square, that doesn’t make it true.

I respectfully disagree. What we perceive to be true becomes true. Truth changes.

If truth changes, then how can it be explained in any form.
It simply cant be explained or understood.

if everybody believes the moon is square, it wont make the moon square, the truth will remain that the moon is round, it doesn’t change, what we percieve to be the truth changes, but then what do we know? the truth is unchanging

Let me tell you what i think, having read one or two books on the subject. It’s important to distinguish between (in my book) the main definitions of truth, although there are loads really.

Firstly, there is ‘real’ truth, by which I mean the way things actually are - for example, the ‘real’ shape of the Earth.

Secondly, there is ‘perceived’ truth, i.e. the people think that things are - for example the belief in Medieval times that the Earth was flat.

Although opinion is divided among many philosophers, most agree that it is not possible to know the ‘real’ truth about anything. This is because we are limited to direct knowledge only of our own perceptions, which means all truth is really perceived truth.

For example, we believe that the real shape of the Earth is that of a sphere, but very few of us will have direct evidence of this. Instead we rely on scientific evidence which we assume is correct.

There is a third definition of truth, known as ‘a priori truth’ or - more commonly - ‘a priori knowledge’. This is where an item of truth or knowledge is obtained not through either ‘direct’ experience or direct perception but through deduction. It is through this process of a priori deduction that scientists came to believe that the Earth was round many years before we were able to record pictures of the Earth from space and ‘prove’ this theory.

Hope this helps. Happy to answer any more questions on this.

thats a good response!

thank you

i like the labels of ‘real’ truth, and ‘perceived’ truth much better than the names i gave them up there somewhere ^

it would be nice to know which we are talking about. people seem to be talking about both.

I guess what we’re talking about is our relationship to what we universally refer to as ‘truth’, by which we mean ‘real’ truth. While everyone has their own ideas on what they believe is the fundamental nature of truth, in practice it is unlikely that we will ever really know, because almost everything we experience is filtered through, and distorted by, our very human perceptions of the world.

While the real nature of truth is unknown, we are able to approximate the probable nature of truth based on past experience.

So, for example, if the first squirrel that we ever see is a grey squirrel, we can therefore expect the next squirrel we see to also be grey, although we cannot be 100% sure that this will be the case. If we were then to see another 1000 squirrels, all of which were also grey, then our expectations would have been proven correct.

In this way we aquire the perception that all squirrels are in fact grey, without having tested this belief by checking the colour of every squirrel in existence. If we were to do this, we would then discover that some squirrels are red, and some black. At this stage our previous perception that all squirrels are grey would change, and we would then believe that while most squirrels are grey, some are red, and some are black.

so, if we follow this line of logic, we soon realize that knowing what the truth is would require absolute knowledge, and that is something we cannot do as humans. if there is a God, then maybe he would know…

but us not being able to know the truth obviously doesn’t disprove the existence of truth, it just means that we cant verify it. so basically, people can only guess at what the truth is, and hope that what they have perceived is correct.

(i personally don’t trust my perceptions enough, so i supplement my knowledge with what others can tell me, at least that which makes sense to me)

Can someone show me the square root of pi in the physical world? People keep talking about it as if it was some truth or something…