Help-dot-com is starting to feel less helpful and fair. A Christian is apparently not allowed to talk against atheism or else they will get a lot of hate. But supposedly it’s okay for an atheist to talk against Christianity. This is not fair.
There is one user on this site who seems to bash Christianity every time it’s mentioned. He or she, I feel, acts like a know-it-all and says the Christians are wrong and unknowledgble in their faith. Except atheism is a religion too and Christianity should be treated with just as much respect as any other religion, but I feel it’s not. Is this just me?
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Well, you shouldn’t talk against atheism, and the same goes for atheist about theism..
Just express your opinion, but don’t try to convince anyone, let the one that reads the message make his own mind about it…
Dont take it this way, I know what you mean but you have to understand, just because someone is talking down on your faith gives you NO right comment on theirs.
I want theists to be able to post whatever they wish. However, to say atheism is a religion is like saying bald is a hair color. Atheism is not a religion, it is the absence of religion.
Nante wrote: Dont take it this way, I know what you mean but you have to understand, just because someone is talking down on your faith gives you NO right comment on theirs.
just because someone is talkng down on YOUR faith
gives you no right to comment on theirs….
ok who is laughing really hard?
sarcasm becomes you AMHP.
Verum Causa wrote: I want theists to be able to post whatever they wish. However, to say atheism is a religion is like saying bald is a hair color. Atheism is not a religion, it is the absence of religion.
Well thats true, but you could say bald is a hair style :D
Verum Causa wrote: I want theists to be able to post whatever they wish. However, to say atheism is a religion is like saying bald is a hair color. Atheism is not a religion, it is the absence of religion.
Well a religion technically is.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
Well, atheism doesn’t have any rituals as far as I know, but has a set of beliefs explaining the beginning or creation
dancingGir wrote:
Nante wrote: Dont take it this way, I know what you mean but you have to understand, just because someone is talking down on your faith gives you NO right comment on theirs.
just because someone is talkng down on YOUR faithgives you no right to comment on theirs….ok who is laughing really hard?sarcasm becomes you AMHP.
It gives you no right
amhp wrote: Wait, I don’t get it. Are you all saying I’m the bad one because I made a post about this?
No, We’re saying that you shouldn’t talk bad about atheism, and atheist shouldn’t talk bad about theism…
They’re just beliefs, everyone has a different one…
Verum Causa wrote: Atheism doesn’t have any set of beliefs explaining the beginning of the universe. Therefore according to your definition, it isn’t a religion.
If it doesn’t believe in religion’s opinions, the only thing left is the Big Bang…
The fact that there isn’t anyone who “rules” atheist doesn’t mean you can’t get a common sense of it…
Nante wrote: Dont take it this way, I know what you mean but you have to understand, just because someone is talking down on your faith gives you NO right comment on theirs.
just because someone is talkng down on YOUR faithgives you no right to comment on theirs….ok who is laughing really hard?sarcasm becomes you AMHP.
It gives you no right
amhp wrote: Wait, I don’t get it. Are you all saying I’m the bad one because I made a post about this?
No, We’re saying that you shouldn’t talk bad about atheism, and atheist shouldn’t talk bad about theism…
They’re just beliefs, everyone has a different one…
2511 wrote:
Verum Causa wrote: I want theists to be able to post whatever they wish. However, to say atheism is a religion is like saying bald is a hair color. Atheism is not a religion, it is the absence of religion.
Well a religion technically is.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
Well, atheism doesn’t have any rituals as far as I know, but has a set of beliefs explaining the beginning or creation
dancingGir wrote:
Nante wrote: Dont take it this way, I know what you mean but you have to understand, just because someone is talking down on your faith gives you NO right comment on theirs.
just because someone is talkng down on YOUR faithgives you no right to comment on theirs….ok who is laughing really hard?sarcasm becomes you AMHP.
It gives you no right
amhp wrote: Wait, I don’t get it. Are you all saying I’m the bad one because I made a post about this?
No, We’re saying that you shouldn’t talk bad about atheism, and atheist shouldn’t talk bad about theism…
They’re just beliefs, everyone has a different one…
But I never said I was talking bad about atheism. Talking bad about atheism is like talking bad about my dad. I would never do that. I’d only been trying to defend my religion because I constantly feel attacked and I’m trying to find where the fairness is in all this.
Verum Causa wrote: Atheism doesn’t have any set of beliefs explaining the beginning of the universe. Therefore according to your definition, it isn’t a religion.
If it doesn’t believe in religion’s opinions, the only thing left is the Big Bang…The fact that there isn’t anyone who “rules” atheist doesn’t mean you can’t get a common sense of it…
Sorry. That’s a misconception. The Big Bang is a belief of scientists. That’s not a property of atheism.
Verum Causa wrote: Atheism doesn’t have any set of beliefs explaining the beginning of the universe. Therefore according to your definition, it isn’t a religion.
If it doesn’t believe in religion’s opinions, the only thing left is the Big Bang…The fact that there isn’t anyone who “rules” atheist doesn’t mean you can’t get a common sense of it…
Sorry. That’s a misconception. The Big Bang is a belief of scientists. That’s not a property of atheism.
Well Ahiest BELIEVE that there is no higher power,afterlife ect.
Right?
dancing Girl wrote: lol.. bye.. can someone talk about the subject at hand and not their name..
What are you talking about???
You just came in here and started “laughing really hard”
dancing Girl wrote: no no IKARI 2511 and Verum are the only ones really posting at all. ohhh NANTE who are u??
lol, I?m not angry at anyone, I?m just making my post
Nante wrote:
Verum Causa wrote:
2511 wrote:
Verum Causa wrote: Atheism doesn’t have any set of beliefs explaining the beginning of the universe. Therefore according to your definition, it isn’t a religion.
If it doesn’t believe in religion’s opinions, the only thing left is the Big Bang…The fact that there isn’t anyone who “rules” atheist doesn’t mean you can’t get a common sense of it…
Sorry. That’s a misconception. The Big Bang is a belief of scientists. That’s not a property of atheism.
Well Ahiest BELIEVE that there is no higher power,afterlife ect. Right?
dancing Girl wrote: lol.. bye.. can someone talk about the subject at hand and not their name..
What are you talking about???You just came in here and started “laughing really hard”
we get mad at christians pressing their faith on non believers, and stating like fact that god is the be all and end all and will solve all problems. When a lot of us have struggled with serious problems that we would have given to god at any second, could we have.
the reality for us is that god does not exist and is no help at all in the darkest times.
so for people to be on here pushing it in others faces, well, it gets us mad.
there is a difference between debate and argument however. most people on here ask for proof, thats all, or at least a solid argument that doesnt involve religious cliches and verses being spewed at us.
people have their right to not agree with christianity. some take it way too far, agreed. but you will always get that here.
if you want a forum with no atheists or people who wont challenge your beliefs, then a christian forum is for you, not this one.
Sure, but you can’t build a religion around the absence of belief in something. What am I going to do? Mimick Jehovah’s Witnesses by going door to door, but instead of having the “Watchtower”, have blank paper? Atheism is about as much a religion as afaerism, You don’t believe in faeries do you? You are a fellow afaerist?
Verum Causa wrote: Nante:Sure, but you can’t build a religion around the absence of belief in something. What am I going to do? Mimick Jehovah’s Witnesses by going door to door, but instead of having the “Watchtower”, have blank paper? Atheism is about as much a religion as afaerism, You don’t believe in faeries do you? You are a fellow afaerist?
Corty has a point, how can we easily believe in a God in this world. and this may not be the appropriate forum for Christians who really really belive that all they need to do is turst that Jesus took care of it all. I did not say I was laughing really hard, I thought NANTE was being highly sarcastic, and I called the being on it. and you took me wrong cause you were too lazy to read what I said. but not too lazy to criticize. Please take some time in dealing with others.
Urine Sane wrote: we get mad at christians pressing their faith on non believers, and stating like fact that god is the be all and end all and will solve all problems. When a lot of us have struggled with serious problems that we would have given to god at any second, could we have.
the reality for us is that god does not exist and is no help at all in the darkest times.
so for people to be on here pushing it in others faces, well, it gets us mad.
there is a difference between debate and argument however. most people on here ask for proof, thats all, or at least a solid argument that doesnt involve religious cliches and verses being spewed at us.
people have their right to not agree with christianity. some take it way too far, agreed. but you will always get that here.
if you want a forum with no atheists or people who wont challenge your beliefs, then a christian forum is for you, not this one.
I came here because I genuinely needed help. And I stuck around because the people seemed nice.
dancing Girl wrote: Corty has a point, how can we easily believe in a God in this world. and this may not be the appropriate forum for Christians who really really belive that all they need to do is turst that Jesus took care of it all. I did not say I was laughing really hard, I thought NANTE was being highly sarcastic, and I called the being on it. and you took me wrong cause you were too lazy to read what I said. but not too lazy to criticize. Please take some time in dealing with others.
I did read it you meanie head.
dancing Girl wrote:
just because someone is talkng down on YOUR faith
gives you no right to comment on theirs….
ok who is laughing really hard?
sarcasm becomes you AMHP.
By saying “who else” you imply someone is.
Someone being you since you said it.
I didnt critisize anyone, I asked you a question cause you kept qouting me and saying my name..
And I wasnt being sarcastic.
I don’t have a problem with theists attacking atheism with logical reasons and substantiated arguments. I do have a problem with theists attacking atheism with statements such as: “Atheists are fools.” and “There are no atheist charities.”
I always am at least prepared to substantiate my arguments with facts and logic. I wouldn’t expect any people to allow me to talk if I went around saying things like: “Christians are fools.” or “Christians don’t help atheists.”
People should be allowed to say what they think and they should even be allowed to say what they think about other beliefs, even if it is negative. The thing is, statements should discuss beliefs. They shouldn’t attack a group of people just for their ideas. Let me paraphrase. Discuss the ideas. Not the people.
Verum Causa wrote: amhp:I don’t have a problem with theists attacking atheism with logical reasons and substantiated arguments. I do have a problem with theists attacking atheism with statements such as: “Atheists are fools.” and “There are no atheist charities.”I always am at least prepared to substantiate my arguments with facts and logic. I wouldn’t expect any people to allow me to talk if I went around saying things like: “Christians are fools.” or “Christians don’t help atheists.”People should be allowed to say what they think and they should even be allowed to say what they think about other beliefs, even if it is negative. The thing is, statements should discuss beliefs. They shouldn’t attack a group of people just for their ideas. Let me paraphrase. Discuss the ideas. Not the people.
Ill agree but to thesist its more then just an idea, and you have to respect that of bothparties, whether religous people dont want their religon bashed, or atheist dont want to have a faith pushed on them.
i can tell you right now that i have seen a lot of atheists getting bashed for talking snap about christianity.
it is all dependant on who is online when the post is made
Alpha Knight wrote: i can tell you right now that i have seen a lot of atheists getting bashed for talking snap about christianity. it is all dependant on who is online when the post is made
Alpha Knight wrote: also i could care less on whether people say atheism is a religion or not.its all just a government conspiracy, like everything else
The only truth in this world is in pie And super models.
Alpha Knight wrote: also i could care less on whether people say atheism is a religion or not.its all just a government conspiracy, like everything else
The only truth in this world is in pie And super models.
well said.
except, some super models can be traps too
pie’s evil brother cake is always a lie tho
Im not saying leave amhp, im simply saying that thats how it is around a secular site. you will get criticism for being a christian, simply because christians arent well liked and their beliefs seem far fetched and pathetic to a lot of us.
a few rotten apples spoiled the barrel for y’all im afraid.
Alpha Knight wrote: also i could care less on whether people say atheism is a religion or not.its all just a government conspiracy, like everything else
The only truth in this world is in pie And super models.
well said.except, some super models can be traps toopie’s evil brother cake is always a lie tho
Urine Sane wrote: Im not saying leave amhp, im simply saying that thats how it is around a secular site. you will get criticism for being a christian, simply because christians arent well liked and their beliefs seem far fetched and pathetic to a lot of us. a few rotten apples spoiled the barrel for y’all im afraid.
I just want to say we all have good intentions. like you saying their beliefs seem far fetched.. wow.. intense
I do wish we could discuss atheism being a religion or not. Corty is lucky and clever, she will never get banned for digressing. But the understanding of atheism seems so much more important
dancing Girl wrote: I do wish we could discuss atheism being a religion or not. Corty is lucky and clever, she will never get banned for digressing. But the understanding of atheism seems so much more important
Sounds like you’re in love with Corty, haha. Joking, joking.
pretty much everyone is. its just a side effect of not digressing ;)
and to me, the very definition of religion is believing in something and following the teachings. atheism has no beliefs or teachings,and believe in nothing.
amhp wrote: Atheism does have beliefs. They believe mainly what scientists believe. That is belief.
Atheism doesn’t adopt any science as one of its core beliefs.
I tried reading this entire post, if missed something I’m sorry. Atheism has some core beliefs? Is Atheism united (ie all atheists believe these same things and not others?) Isn’t it simply a person who feels or thinks they can perceive no evidence of a God.
aitheism is playing the religion card to get more attention, speaking of fake religions, scientology.
no real religion would stalk me for protesting against them.
athiests believe about a bazillion different things, and do not stick to any one dogma. you cant call that a religion. why is this even an issue anyways?
Alpha Knight wrote: aitheism is playing the religion card to get more attention, speaking of fake religions, scientology.
no real religion would stalk me for protesting against them.
and…what? the whole point of being an atheist is there is no religion involved….
Requiem in D minor wrote: Sorry to seem dense amph.. please can you define God?
Read the Bible, then you’ll know what God is like. :-)
Urine Sane wrote: athiests believe about a bazillion different things, and do not stick to any one dogma. you cant call that a religion. why is this even an issue anyways?
Christian believe about a bazillion different things too. Otherwise, there would be no such thing as denominations.
still, those denominations have a common belief. all believe that jesus was the son of god who died for our sins.
no matter how diverse other beliefs are, there is still that common factor in all.
Urine Sane wrote: still, those denominations have a common belief. all believe that jesus was the son of god who died for our sins.
no matter how diverse other beliefs are, there is still that common factor in all.
And still, atheism has a common belief: They believe God does not exist and we are in control of our destinies.
Urine Sane wrote: not all atheists believe they are in control of their own destinies.
this is a moot point anyways, are we done trying to prove/disprove this?
Some people think of talking about your religion vs. theirs or another in general is kinda like someone going door to door preaching about how they should live. Some people take it the wrong way. Freedom of speech, even dealing with religion, should be totally acceptable…especially on here.
amhp wrote: [quote Requiem in D minor]Sorry to seem dense amph.. please can you define God?
Read the Bible, then you’ll know what God is like. :-)
believing the Bible is a custom of a couple religions. I personally don’t believe each word or story in the Bible is remebered accurately. So are you saying that you must be a Christian (believe the bible) to know God, then be an atheist to not see the evidence. Save yourself some trouble. Define God the way you want, my definition is that God is ALL that is good. the essence of goodness. and goodness has physics and economic formulas that if adhered to bring peace and contentment.
I know the defintion of God. Geesh. I, like tons of people, have studied many religions. It’s just a natural course of education.
Mine was a question that hopefully would have made you THINK. If you do not believe in ANY Religion.. then how can you say that you do not believe in GOD. since being religion free, you have no authority forcing the definition of GOD upon you.
How can you not understand what I am implying here.
True, but I am not reality free. And theists assert that their beliefs are representative of reality. If we were discussing an issue that pertained to only one group, I would be fine to let them hold their own definitions, and not concern myself with it. However, there are many faiths and absenses of faith with each group having beliefs about the nature of reality. In order for for a dialogue to occur among the groups, there must be some concrete, unshifting definitions in order to reach an understanding of both people’s beliefs and of actually reality. Anything else approaches solipsism I think, and there are many reasons why that is unacceptable and incorrect.
Verum Causa wrote: You could try the Quran or the Vedas to gain a definition of god.
No… Because God is the Christian God’s name. So, if someone capitalizes the ‘G’, it’s the Christian God. If they are talking about any other god, then they will use the name adherent to the religion.
No matter what belief, theism, God(s) you have faith in everyone has hopes, fears, doubts: we’re all born the same innocent creatures. I’m not religious, I follow my own path, that doesn’t make me any better or worse then anyone else.
solipsism ..lol… now I’ve got to open google. couldn’t you stupid up your choice of words a bit. kk did, it really wasnt that hard.
“My mind is the only thing that I know exists.” Solipsism is an epistemological or metaphysical position that knowledge of anything outside the mind is unjustified. The external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist.
Now Ill say “pfff” to that, since I know other minds exist. this conversation is proof of your minds existence (it’s mine that may be in question)
also you wrote “there must be some concrete, unshifting definitions in order to reach an understanding of both people’s beliefs and of actually reality.”
true, true. but there is no reason to think a believe is real, simply because alot of people have hoped it was true for a really really long time.
Geesh, youre making me google all over the place, now I know how I would use the word concensus.. but my definition didnt help me undertand your meaning. so ;
Consensus has two common meanings. One is a general agreement among the members of a given group or community, each of which exercises some discretion in decision making and follow-up action. The other is as a theory and practice of getting such agreements ( formal consensus)
we both agree whatever beliefs of a particular religion that the first definition applys “a given group”.
So I am assuming that you meant the formal one. a unified definition of “God”
To an extent, yes. But mainly I’m thinking about the ability of the world community to reach a concensus about how to treat each other regarding religion, how to discuss it, and how to treat it.
That sounds like a dream. I think people follow beliefs specific to their needs.
A being who needs a very organized, histrionic, complete with every detail religion Is probably one who may be overwhelmed by life and appreciates the complete set of answers set out before them.
And historically serious and brilliant thinkers have tended toward agnostic/atheist beliefs. Not immoral behavior, just a deep feeling that we are in fact responsible, and that a beautiful angel of a man who came to us 2 thousand years ago, made it so we can wash our sins from us.
I totally believe in Jesus, but also in Buddha. I think they both had the secrets to our existence (being good to each other, giving more than you take, treading lightly upon our earth, and learning to control our minds and actions). I just don’t think Jesus’ sole purpose was to make people guilt free, especially if they have no intention (or little intention) of continuing the guilt producing acts.
And the idea that if you were bad, let’s leave it at that and you asked to be forgiven on your death bed. That you would go to eternal paradise. But a Hindu that was a noble, giving, caring, thoughtful being automatically goes to a situation where he would burn for eternity, this idea should be questioned.
To summarize, some people need to believe just to get through the day (some places dont even have enough food, let alone some people are in pain). Others can question while acting good. There will never be a consensus. People need what they need.
oops wish I could edit my answer cause i meant to say
And historically serious and brilliant thinkers have tended toward agnostic/atheist beliefs. Not immoral behavior, just a deep feeling that we are in fact responsible, and that a beautiful angel of a man who came to us 2 thousand years ago, made it so we can learn proper behavior and morals, not simply to wash our sins from us.
sorry
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