That’s a good point about the courts; why do they make sure that everyone has to suffer equally?
I guess we all have to suffer “equally”. Never mind the years of stuff I put up with. I have worked hard to be where I am at now, and it is being taken. I finally have a + sign in my check book now it is a big negative.
i know you might not want to take advice from a 14 year old kid but im in a similar position as ur children. my mum and dad split up about a month after i was born and my dad left with his girlfriend. my mum and dad never got a divorce or anything, since my mum cant afford it. and my mum cant get child support money out of him because hes crurrently ‘out of a job’ when he isnt. when i do go over to see my dad he abuses me and my sister mentally. the best thing me and my mum are doing is going to court and I’M telling them how unfit a father he is. if you children are old enough to understand they could be a BIG help.. if not im really sorry i couldnt help
Every reply is helpful. My kids, especially my daughter (15) have been told over and over, that he would “end things” if they chose to not be there. They feel responsible for his happiness. So even if my daughter calls me crying almost every time she is there, she will not tell a judge that she doesn’t want to see him. My son just clams up. He call me all the time, but he won’t talk about anything. I know in my heart they would be better off not being there, but given their age, I need them to say so. They have been mentally driven down so long that they think that it is their job to take care of him. Not the other way around.
ice cream helps… it made me tell my aunt everything. try having a girly talk wid ur daughter and pop out some icecream it make the idea of talking more fun. but ya might wanna start talkin about summin else first.^.^ it helped me a lil. if that dont work try other methods of making your bond with your kids better than the one they have with their dad, that might make them think for themselves and want to be with you more than their dad…..Woah i sounded adult-ish
You did sound adult-ish. The issue is they do tell me they want to be with me more than their dad, ask me to pick them up from his house, cry on my shoulder, but they will not tell it to a judge. If they won’t do that, I just have to be there for them.
I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this type of situation. Any abuse that shows no physical detail is hard to prove. And like you say, the courts only see the monetary value of fairness and even it’s sometimes a bit skewed.
I agree.. you just need to be there for them..
Do you have any family or friends that live close that you can talk with? A good friend can be great support when you get depressed like this..
annyia wrote:
ice cream helps… it made me tell my aunt everything. try having a girly talk wid ur daughter and pop out some icecream it make the idea of talking more fun. but ya might wanna start talkin about summin else first.^.^ it helped me a lil. if that dont work try other methods of making your bond with your kids better than the one they have with their dad, that might make them think for themselves and want to be with you more than their dad…..Woah i sounded adult-ish
And like Annyia says, ice cream helps too.. :)
It sounds like your ex is holding them hostage emotionally. It’s a very destructive behavior learned as a means of controlling others.
I know, that’s why I was married to him for too long. I thought I was responsible for his happiness and he told me he could not survive without me. But somehow that never translated into my happiness. Now, I see my kids going through it. I do have friends. I have talked to them. There are no answers other than to just keep moving forward. I am just tired tonight and I see everything that I have worked so hard for being taken away. I have to find my strength somewhere. Tonight I am just tired of being strong. And I want to cry. I want him to just go away. He doesn’t care if I can’t pay my bills. I am stranded. I can’t find the up side.
I’m sorry hun, {{{hug}}}, I know it’s not always fair but it’s ok to cry once in a while too..
barely invited 1 user to read this post 11 months, 2 weeks ago.
Thanks. Hugs back. I just feel so helpless. I know tomorrow I will find my strength… but today it is just not there.
No one says you have to always be the strong one.. Sometimes you need to let others be there for you.
So the kids are at Dads tonight?
Hi Free, Im sorry for what you are going through, but my thinking is the kids are under threat from the Father not to say anything. Also if they stay in this Environment the outcome for them isn’t going to be good. Years of mental cruelty takes it toll as it did with you.
Is there an alternate place for the kids to live i.e Grandparents maybe ?
Of course. They are out to dinner and a play. hmmm spending money. Oh, that’s right, I have to send him a check in a few days. He will recoup what he spent that way.
I was on the same end of that until two years ago, my c/s was right hundred a month..
barely wrote:
I was on the same end of that until two years ago, my c/s was eight hundred a month..
Sorry missed my e
BFree wrote:
Every reply is helpful. My kids, especially my daughter (15) have been told over and over, that he would “end things” if they chose to not be there. They feel responsible for his happiness. So even if my daughter calls me crying almost every time she is there, she will not tell a judge that she doesn’t want to see him. My son just clams up. He call me all the time, but he won’t talk about anything. I know in my heart they would be better off not being there, but given their age, I need them to say so. They have been mentally driven down so long that they think that it is their job to take care of him. Not the other way around.
He’s holding this threat over the children s heads isn’t he, this isn’t a good scenario for them or you.
They won’t talk to a judge simply because he has threatened to end it, a childs love is unconditional , whether they want to be there or not bless them.
Sasha, there is not way to prove it. I have tried. I have had the kids in counseling and everything. I tried when the divorce was final. I know more than anyone what mental abuse does. But there are no visible marks. I am trying to teach them to stand up for themselves. My mantra has become, he is the adult, not you, you are not responsible for him, you deserve to be happy, you deserve to not walk around on egg shells… but they won’t take that next step. They are great kids…every day I hope that I can keep telling them how great they are.
Oh, and he is trying to claim 900 a month from me. The judge won’t hear my case for 6 months… I could lose everything in 6 months.
Why so long? Can’t your lawyer have it accelerated?
I am looking into that. It has something to do with the back log in family court. There is not abuse or life threatening situation, so I am at the end of the line.
By abuse, I mean physical.
As you said hon, this is doing the children no good to have both parents financially struggling, what needs to happen is they come with you and you both work to support them.
How can he be so stupid as not to see the kids need both of you and it would be easier for you both to pull together. Mental abuse if often worse than physical, as you say it cant be proven, but your kids are old enough to give that evidence, that has to be frustrating for you. :-(
Do you and your ex live in the same town or county?
Free do you consider your lawyer to be a good one ?
If not your lawyer can ask for a change of venue and that may speed it up.
We live 20 minutes from each other. He laughs at me having to support him. He thinks its great. It is his own revenge for me leaving him. He now has some “control” of my life again and he is enjoying it.
I just hired a new lawyer as my old one seemed to be over worked. But paying child support and paying a lawyer is seriously very expensive. A change of venue needs to have purpose, family court or child support has to take place in the county you live in. There are no extenuating circumstances to get the change of venue.
You know what if it were me Free, Id be finding another lawyer that would go out of his way to get the mental abuse proven and bought to the forefront. If it can be proved he is abusing these kids mentally, the tables may well turn in your favor.
Have you had Child Protection in on this ?
If it were my kids, Id be out to hang him out to dry, any form of abuse is wrong to a child.
Sasha101 wrote:
If it were my kids, Id be out to hang him out to dry, any form of abuse is wrong to a child.
I agree, call somebody and talk with them about the abuse, maybe there are other channels.
I worked for a Lawyer in England, but I know here some rules are different.
Can you report him to child services?
In England we had the benefit of Legal Aid, if you couldn’t pay the Government would help you, do you have that here or not ?
That is what I am working for. I want full custody. And, it is wrong. It is so very very wrong. Just very difficult to prove. Especially when child services hear so many cases everyday where kids are beaten, abandoned, sworn at, etc etc. My case falls into the not bad enough category. Think about it, they let kids that have been in foster care for years, go back to their parents. Only to be put back in foster care.
Here’s the deal, he’s a boy scout troop leader, active in church, volunteers to make food for the homeless every month, he is my son’s basketball coach, he even gives blood. He plays Santa every year for kids. From the outside he appears to be a saint. He makes the fun times over the top fantastic. Takes the kids to the opera, plays, etc. But then in home, for the day to day, he is awful, controlling, manipulative, verbally abusive, and …… and ……
I don’t know about legal aid. I will look into that.
oh shoot. I have 5 minutes. I promised a friend I would come over for dinner and I have to get ready. She doesn’t want me to be alone. Thanks for all your advice. I feel stronger just getting it out of me.
The Wolf in sheeps clothing eh? heres a link, it may not be much but I think there maybe a form of Legal aid in some states http://www.illinoislegalaid.org/
Good luck hon, come back if you need to talk more ))))hugs
http://law.justanswer.com
This is a site where you can ask an online lawyer questions, not sure how good it is, but maybe worth a try.
Free, what state are you in?
I’m picking up on something you said earlier BFree. I think it may be the key to helping your children to understand the reality of what he is doing and how he is manipulating and controlling them.
You said that he has told them he will not live without them.. ie. threatening to kill himself? And that he used that trump card against you in the past?
Firstly, next time this comes up … gently remind your children that he threatened YOU with that but seems to be coping mighty fine without you! Let them know how awful he made you feel, how responsible etc. etc. Maybe if they see that you felt exactly how they now feel, and Dad is now quite happy to do his own thing and live off your earnings, they will realise that they are going down the same road. When they are adult and earning, he could well be living off them!
Secondly, if he has threatened to “end things” then there is something you DO need to discuss with child services. It makes him potentially “unstable”. Express your concerns to them and insist that they ask the children to repeat what they have told you. After all, what exactly does he mean by “end things”? Trust me.. any social worker hearing that here in UK now will NOT want to brush it off as “just a threat”. I hope it would be the same in US. If he’s going to make threats, he is going to have to be investigated.
Good luck with this.
I agree with the others. Find a good lawyer and see if there isn’t a support group that can help you through.
Most importantly, be a stable and caring figure for your children. Do not let your resentment of your husband’s actions impact on their guilt. They have enough to bear. When you get together, listen to their worries, show that you care.. but try to remain neutral in how you express your thoughts about him. Say things like “I hear you, honey… I understand.” not “The swine, how dare he?” etc. That’s hard, I know. But it’s important that they don’t feel like the rope in a tug-of-war.
mumstheword wrote:
I’m picking up on something you said earlier BFree. I think it may be the key to helping your children to understand the reality of what he is doing and how he is manipulating and controlling them.
You said that he has told them he will not live without them.. ie. threatening to kill himself? And that he used that trump card against you in the past?
Firstly, next time this comes up … gently remind your children that he threatened YOU with that but seems to be coping mighty fine without you! Let them know how awful he made you feel, how responsible etc. etc. Maybe if they see that you felt exactly how they now feel, and Dad is now quite happy to do his own thing and live off your earnings, they will realise that they are going down the same road. When they are adult and earning, he could well be living off them!
I agree with this, it may just be the key to a win for you.
[quote mumstheword]Secondly, if he has threatened to “end things” then there is something you DO need to discuss with child services. It makes him potentially “unstable”. Express your concerns to them and insist that they ask the children to repeat what they have told you. After all, what exactly does he mean by “end things”? Trust me.. any social worker hearing that here in UK now will NOT want to brush it off as “just a threat”. I hope it would be the same in US. If he’s going to make threats, he is going to have to be investigated.
Good luck with this.
I agree with the others. Find a good lawyer and see if there isn’t a support group that can help you through.
Most importantly, be a stable and caring figure for your children. Do not let your resentment of your husband’s actions impact on their guilt. They have enough to bear. When you get together, listen to their worries, show that you care.. but try to remain neutral in how you express your thoughts about him. Say things like “I hear you, honey… I understand.” not “The swine, how dare he?” etc. That’s hard, I know. But it’s important that they don’t feel like the rope in a tug-of-war.
This woman make s very solid, valid point, you need to consider these topics closely with your lawyer..
I have been very empathetic towards them, and trying to help them cope. I don’t burden them with my issues. I do tell them when I think there father has behaved in an inappropriate manner, the I say things like, it is unfortunate that he does not see how he is hurting you. it must be very hard for you. This must be so difficult for you….etc.
I know it is the right thing… but very very hard. There are times I want to jump and shout, but I save that for later.
The issue with his behavior is he is very careful on how he words his threats. So when he is confronted he makes the argument that it was a misinterpretation of what he said. For instance he may say he is going to end things. But he will never say his life. Then he may come back and say I was talking about the argument or something like that…. He knows very well what he meant and the intent of what he stated, but denies it.
I have taken him to a mediator twice. Both times due to his behavior. The mediator was good in that he told him certain behaviors had to stop. Those behaviors did stop. Just something new came up that was outside of the scope of the mediators orders. For example, he was told he could no longer discuss me with the kids, especially in the manner he was. So, he began to discuss my family. My kids have learned to see through him.
Next week when I meet with my new attorney, I should be able to know more. Thanks all.
231me231
Sasha101