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Every moment is a new choice to do different things you have or haven’t done before.
I’m more a believer of subjective evidence (if such a thing can be said) than objective evidence…
Especially when it comes to matters that societies try to condition people to believe are objective, and outside of you.
A perfect example is the way advertising companies use certain images that are often damaging to both self worth and self esteem to set norms.
love life. All life is lucky, accept others right to it…Self worth is aknowledgmenet of value that you can give. Actions consequece result with memories…
jjlove wrote:
As much as I agree….
No sorrys needed, thanks for sharing.
I agree with the tack and diplomacy, and I like the idea of karma.
Usually concerning yourself with others feelings is looking after yourself, but can you see that there are occasions when this is not the case?
“Also, I often find that putting other’s needs ahead of my own ensures that I get what I need anyway.”
I think often is the key qualifier. My “other check” has been slapped enough me thinks, to the point I started to displace.
Dougie the Pisces wrote:
I’m more a believer of subjective evidence (if such a thing can be said) than objective evidence…Especially when it comes to matters that societies try to condition people to believe are objective, and outside of you.A perfect example is the way advertising companies use certain images that are often damaging to both self worth and self esteem to set norms.
wasn’t following you until the 2nd para example. Yeah, high self wroth people are much harder to sell junk to. “drink coke and you will be loved and worthwhile”. More and more, I am staying away from ads. No commercial tv, radio, etc.
You got some more thoughts on “subjective evidence” - the idea intrigues me. The way I see it now is that evidence is there, but so often we take someone else’s interpretation of it and that allows manipulation. When I said objective evidence, the idea is to look at it as it really is, without the bias we bring from past experiences.
Self worth? One’s self has value? To whom? One’s self?
You can have status for your job or income level. How much does that really make a person better than others?
jjlove wrote:
One more thing to add… I think only you can decide the worth of yourself.
indeed! If only it was a “decide” I would have done it already…
where that “self worth dial”- lets wind it to max :-)
wow - just flinched then. Won’t go into it, but I just got an insight on the fear that is preventing increased self worth. Actually, I will. People without lovign parents can have high self worth, but those with repeatedly abusive ones? A bit harder. The more I valued myself and shone, the more it threatened my dad and some silly teachers. ahhahahah win. so self deprecation for too long and it ***** you up. Religious emotional crutch schools for the fail. All my posts come back to this stuff, I shouldn’t be surprised anymore.
Ok, I’ve got the answer I needed, but up for interesting discussion still.
Good because I was in the middle of typing a Dougie rant ;)
Dougie the Pisces wrote:
Good because I was in the middle of typing a Dougie rant ;)
keep going man!
I am feeling exposed, so had to close that off asap, but still the area is an important one to me.
Oh ok….Chunky
Let me clarify my use (or possible misuse) of terminology
*looks around around for diction Nazis*)
By objective… outside of yourself. Everything in the world that is not you.
By subjective… the opposite… your being, your mind, your thoughts, your lifeforce etc….
Objective in the sense of… how the world looks at you, and treats you
Subjective… how you look at yourself, and treat yourself!
It seems to be one of those matters (for me personally anyway) where it is really not up to other to decide.
You can’t wiki your self worth.
An ad has no right to dictate to you your self worth.
A government has no right to regulate your self worth.
Industry should not commodify you self worth.
Deities, preachers, and sacred texts have no business shaping your self worth.
You can’t download you self worth from the internet.
Or get it in the form of a gross-looking and tasting energy drink made from cardboard shavings or sythesised stomach enzymes!
Its not outside… its inside ;)
And I suppose I just said the same thing as JJ….
But in more words :)
But most of all….
You can’t even get it from your loved one.
EVER!
Because it is simply not theirs to give and take…
It is only your choice to maintain… or give away!
k4kiero wrote:
love life. All life is lucky, accept others right to it…Self worth is acknowledgment of value that you can give. Actions consequence result with memories…
love life? will do :-)
Others can have life if they choose, but its not a right as I see it, but something within their abilities.
“acknowledgment of value that you can give?” Hmmm, then it not self worth, but worth by association. I don’t image that statement has meaning to you, but I found I have lived that path for while, and as pretty as it is, it has its draw backs. eg, when you love someone and realise that whats best for them is to be with someone else.
Verum Causa wrote:
Self worth? One’s self has value? To whom? One’s self?
Value is something that people give, its not intrinsic in my view. So yeah, self worth is how much value you place on you.
A more practical measure is given at http://www.enotalone.com/article/3880…
“How deserving am I?”, “How good can I stand it today?” these might sound dumb to those who have self worth, but they can trigger some painful feelings in those that don’t.
If someones whose opinion you value acts as if you are worthless, it can smack you down- any heartbroken person shows that. I think the basket cases might be when parents treat their kids like unflushable ex’s and the kids don’t have the ability to walk away like you can do with an ex-romantic partner. Imagine have to live with your ex and their new partner. Ohhh, Freud, you were one messed up dude, but you got nothing on me.
I agree… it is not intrinsic…
If it was it would function proficiently.
And it clearly doesn’t.
And less you have a special brain that releases strategic doses of Prozac at regular intervals!
Worth is a primate instinct. Check nature movies, monkeys all have the popular and unpopular monkeys on pretty much the same basis as humans.
Dougie the Pisces wrote:
By objective… outside of yourself. Everything in the world that is not you.
By subjective… the opposite… your being, your mind, your thoughts, your lifeforce etc….
wow, I have no grasp of these terms. I am fully both at all times. I guess it comes down to a sense of self, I don’t have one. I made one up in my brain, but it’s not a sense like the classic five, or ones like proprioception or “sense of achievement”. People with brain damage sometimes lose proprioception and have to be very careful or they appear drunk. Maybe I have a damaged “self” part of my brain… hmm makes a lot of sense. I don’t think it was physically damaged like in a stroke victim, but just never developed and then was locked down.
Dougie the Pisces wrote:
You can’t wiki your self worth. An ad has no right to dictate to you your self worth. A government has no right to regulate your self worth.Industry should not commodify you self worth.Deities, preachers, and sacred texts have no business shaping your self worth.You can’t download you self worth from the internet.Or get it in the form of a gross-looking and tasting energy drink
thanks for these, it shows me again how differently I think to most people…
wiki gives knowledge and this may help in self worth development. Unless its in the dna, its nurture, and future environmental conditions are mostly within my control.
rights? Should? I don’t gruk either word. But I do agree that its better for oneself to act as you say.
Can’t download it? NOOOOOOOOO :-)
Dougie the Pisces wrote:
But most of all….You can’t even get it from your loved one.EVER!Because it is simply not theirs to give and take…It is only your choice to maintain… or give away!
**************************
how to maintain it?
**************************
bam, this is my goal here.
yeah, and I agree, loved one can’t. Do you think parents can?
I see that maybe its something that just grows naturally unless something stops its from doing so.
I think our parents play a large in role in the development of our notion of owning our self worth.
I’ll use an obscure example that has to do with pseudo parents.
They have done experiments with plants and music.
If you put a growing plant in a room and play it classical music.. it will grow very healthily.
If you do the same but substitute something discordant like heavy metal… it won’t grow as well.
2Hazel wrote:
Worth is a primate instinct. Check nature movies, monkeys all have the popular and unpopular monkeys on pretty much the same basis as humans.
hi hazel.
Is that self worth you are talking about? Do you think they are separate? I have certainly been popular in my time, and thinking about it, I didn’t have angst about self worth at the time :-)
There have also times when being popular was due to pretence and not fully genuine self expression, and those were crushing. BAM, that’s going on the list.
any link to some movies? I’ve got the time :-)
Dougie the Pisces wrote:
I think our parents play a large in role in the development of our notion of owning our self worth.I’ll use an obscure example that has to do with pseudo parents.They have done experiments with plants and music.If you put a growing plant in a room and play it classical music.. it will grow very healthily.If you do the same but substitute something discordant like heavy metal… it won’t grow as well.
love the analogy Dougie haha
I like the “owning self worth” - maybe even shortening it to “owning worth” - hmm :-0 that feels good to write.
About the plants, do you think it could be not just the direct “music is good”, but the plant realising that the music was provided for it BECAUSE it was good for its growth. A deliberate act? wwooooo, maybe why the discourse between the theists and atheists; about the universe just being and us evolving into it vs the universe being put here for us as that what was good for us.
Wow this post is freaking me out. may be time for a walk, dawn is starting to break, good time for walking
chunkymove wrote:
2Hazel wrote:
Worth is a primate instinct. Check nature movies, monkeys all have the popular and unpopular monkeys on pretty much the same basis as humans.
hi hazel.Is that self worth you are talking about? Do you think they are separate? I have certainly been popular in my time, and thinking about it, I didn’t have angst about self worth at the time :-)There have also times when being popular was due to pretence and not fully genuine self expression, and those were crushing. BAM, that’s going on the list.any link to some movies? I’ve got the time :-)
I think the thing with popularity is, that when its genuine popularity… you don’t have to think about maintaining a false image of your self… and so your focus on your worth tends to automatically go inward.
The process is self maintaining…
Self worth from the inside sends out causality waves, which make you genuinely popular… so you don’t worry about popularity… which generates more self worth… and so on.
The one thing that I think flaws most people that have found themselves in that state is how to maintain it indefintely…
I think the main flaw that comes into play… is somewhere deep inside, there are always going to be issues and human flaws…
At some point the ego can (but doesn’t have to) creep in, and conceit can take over…
I suppose at that point you have to take a step back… and regulate your behaviour a little….
And that’s where humility comes in :)
You are quite correct… my backyard is in twilight!
Might be time for some sleep ;)
5:30am…. where did my routine go? lol
gold man. Thanks for sticking with this, I’m feeling a break though on that one, you just hit a few nails on the head that I hadn’t told anyone about… re readin it.
Then go walkies… and come back :)
I should go to bed…
But I keep meaning to check if any more Stargate Atlantis is online yet…
Thanks for reminding me ;)
nah, thats too raw.
You know you doing something right when they start crying LOL. catch you later, hope you can come back to this.
Time for bed.
I can do this…
small steps…
hehehe… yep its online…
So I’m potentially around for another half hour… depending on how long it takes to download ;)
i had to fake it as a baby just to survive. I lifetime in between then and now, but I crave that “genuinely popular”
I’m afraid to have the inside self worth, as it feels like if I’m not watching out, reality will sh*t on me.
Its only a tiny amount. I’m not so messed up as I sound, but the tiny amount was the very first environment and it set the scene. Its only a nasty taste now, but I need to fix it somehow or I feel I’ll never truly exist, live or be happy.
OH ***** **** ****, my mind won’t let me think about this, I just found myself getting up to do the washing up LOL.
The shrink might have all sorts of ways to reduce symptoms, but the core is…
“I think the thing with popularity is, that when its genuine popularity… you don’t have to think about maintaining a false image of your self… and so your focus on your worth tends to automatically go inward.
The process is self maintaining…
Self worth from the inside sends out causality waves, which make you genuinely popular… so you don’t worry about popularity… which generates more self worth… and so on.
The one thing that I think flaws most people that have found themselves in that state is how to maintain it indefintely…”
I have a quite a set of mental muscles, decent time and financial resources, plenty of siblings and friends who don’t mind to much who I am. I can make new friends, new close friends very easy, spent years doing so, so maybe its time to hit this one and role with the consequences…
thanks Dougie, you had just the right things to say and they right way to say it.
“Stargate Atlantis” - you are such a geek, but its better than waiting the months till dvd release…
so the deal for self worth… act like you really are, and be loved for it.
Its not as simple as it sounds. If you find you aren’t being loved for it, instead of faking it, the hard choice is to leave. That really fits with what I see.
I think so.
Act like you really are, and be loved for it.
Or at least be who you really are, and love yourself for it.
The being comes first, then the acting.
But sometimes the other way around.
And as for being around for you at the right time!
That’s a story for another post!
Self-esteem and self-worth are exactly the same thing (at least according to the dictionary). The problem is that ’same thing’ is very elusive. What it comes down to, for me, is determining your purpose or reason for existing - your raison d’etre. Or at least believing that you have one, even if you don’t know what it is. If you have *that*, then you have self-worth. Personal rant: I really hate that whole ‘act as if until you are’ thing. I get it from shrinks all the time and it’s totally contrived. It’s the same as saying that if you want to be a certain way, all you have to do is be that way. What a cop-out. End rant.
Sangria wrote:
Self-esteem and self-worth are exactly the same thing (at least according to the dictionary). The problem is that ’same thing’ is very elusive.
I explained the differences I see betwwen them.
Sangria wrote:
What it comes down to, for me, is determining your purpose or reason for existing - your raison d’etre. Or at least believing that you have one, even if you don’t know what it is. If you have *that*, then you have self-worth.
I agree. Only after I lost three things in a year did I realise that those things were my “raison d’etre”. SO now I have the very tough challenge or realising that I have to “make up” some others. I lived for two years out of pure stubborness, but maybe the search for the real *me* was my motivator.
Sangria wrote:
Personal rant: I really hate that whole ‘act as if until you are’ thing. I get it from shrinks all the time and it’s totally contrived. It’s the same as saying that if you want to be a certain way, all you have to do is be that way. What a cop-out. End rant.
I hear you, and so often they are practiced answers. How would you run your therapies for someone like your self? I’m thinking of doing an outward bound course. I’ve done plenty of hikes and scout stuff as the leader before, but it might be a good idea to allow my deep down hurt side to express and be one of the angry kids for a change.
Seems the dictionary might have it wrong.
Self esteem - how you view yourself, how good you feel about yourself etc.
Self worth - how valuable you see yourself.
The two things are not synonymous, though there are closely connected!
Dougie the Pisces wrote:
Seems the dictionary might have it wrong.Self esteem - how you view yourself, how good you feel about yourself etc.Self worth - how valuable you see yourself.The two things are not synonymous, though there are closely connected!
yeah. It’s tough when you realise that the value you gave yourself came from how valuable you were to people and causes. I think thats true for many people.
One way to distinguish the definitions… if you anyone feels like being pedantic, is to remove the word self momentarily… and examine the words ESTEEM and WORTH, seperately, and then reattach the word SELF….
Works for me!
Read a pile definitions of both.
Esteem for me is a verb. respect, admiration, regard and confidence.
Worth is more noun, its the quality that renders something desirable, useful, valuable and justifiable.
I had respect/admiration/regard/confidence for myself as I was desirable/useful/valuable /justifiable to people and ideals I had given worth to.
To do otherwise I thought up until a few minutes ago made you a Sociopath/Psychopath, but no, just makes you selfish. It’s lack of empathy, and social acceptable behaviour that gets you those labels.
Sounds strange re-reading that. I never thought that way consciously before, but it explains my subconscious motivations. Hurrah for clearer directions.
I use to hide from negative realisations about myself, but now I am fully independent and have accpeted myself, every discovery like this becomes a straight win.
There you go again…. ;)
I think you would make a great motivational speaker :)
Really good to see that you have accepted change - come to a new thought process and become more content for doing so. your discovery was a great read. keep it up.
wow…. this site is really starting to crumble. I thought I was invited to this post… and thought I made a reply, saying I’ll be back… but I come back today (last night was impossible to do anything here) and I can’t find the notice, I can’t even find the subscription… A search for self esteem comes up blank… it took forever to find the post. Now I wonder if yesterday was all just in my imagination. Is help.com pulling a “Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte” on me?? (yeah you have to be as old as me, or a Betty Davis fan to get that one). Anyway… here’s my take on this post….
Self Esteem vs. Self Worth; this is a very fine line. The dictionary defines the two words as follows:
Esteem – to regard highly or favorably; regard with respect or admiration
Worth - excellence of character or quality as commanding esteem
As you can see, one begets the other. Without a feeling of self worth, you would never have a feeling of self esteem. Self worth are those qualities or traits we posses that lead to our being able to love our self. We all have self worth. The problem is that we don’t always see it, so our self esteem can be lacking. We live in an age where low self esteem is epidemic to our western society. I think this is one of the (if not the single) biggest problem facing our youth today. If we cannot see our self worth, and thereby lack in self esteem – if we cannot love our self, ultimately no one else can love us - and that’s where the problems can really start.
So how do we see our self worth? We see our worth by becoming aware and connecting. Do not turn to environment; do not even turn to your parents. To see your value we must turn within. As the saying goes; “If we do not go within, then we go without”. Then once we see that value within, we can then become aware of how we connect to everyone else in the world. This is achieved most easily through service to others. Once connected we feel our value even more acutely, but within the framework of humility. Self esteem will sky-rocket from there.
One thing we must be watchful of. There is a mask that some wear, that appears like self esteem. This is the mask of pride. Pride is not always built on the foundation of self worth. Pride in one self can be (not always) simply a tool to replace true self esteem, so there is a moment of joy in our life. True self esteem is lasting – pride fades and is gone in moments comparatively.
Bright blessings ~ Richard
if you want to see your self worth and then get your self esstem then you can only turn to God to see what worth he has put on you. God loves you and his love goes beyond understanding. He sent his son to die for you and you can choose to be called his child by accepting his sacrifice. as the child of the most hight king and ruler of the earth, God says you are a sucsses. That all things work together for the good of those that love God. He also said that we are made more than conquerors through him that loved us.
through learning more about how God sees you as his child you can go with your head held high because you are the bloved of God and thats a fcat that can never change.
if you want to read more turn to the bible Romans,8:28-39
God loves you!
misschimb wrote:
…
God loves you!
Thanks for the assistance, but I should have said “no god” in my post. I understand that for so many wonderful people god means positive things for them, but god for me still gives me a little spike of adrenaline as I brace for intellectual, emotional and physical abuse. God as an meme, but for me it a very negative anchor.
Your post was helpful. I reminded me of some more internal homework I want to do, and gave me a spike of energy and direction.
God doesn’t love me, and finally realising that makes me almost float.
God condones stoning of gays.
As a 5yr old, I rode my tricycle down the driveway out into the road. Instead of stopping me, my “father” prayed for my safety.
I wasn’t allowed sunscreen as “the sun shall not harm you by day nor the moon by night”
I concluded at 8yrs that god was false, but had to suppress that knowledge for another 9yrs.
As a religious school, they were somehow outside govt control, so education was lacking and they where the last school in my country to give up caning kids.
Poor parents paid 10% after tax income to church and I was hungry.
plus many more.
God is not the path to my self esteem. Surviving him is.
I would love to be able to take the blue pill ( or apple for the TOKOGE ) but unfortunately god made my with a logical brain, and put my in an environment where I had to use it and all my reasoning and powers of observation is order to survive. So unfortunately, I know am unable to believe.
If you know of any other ways, I am still keen to hear them.
other ways of what Chunkymove? other ways to be aware of self worth, or other ways to relate to God? I would like to express an opinion about God, a different perspective.
I’d be curious to hear it!
Have you posted on my what does God mean to you post?
I closed it because it got a little nasty at the end!
they always get nasty Dougie… and I can bear to read them usually - so no, I don’t post on those posts.
Richard cor de lyon wrote:
other ways of what Chunkymove? other ways to be aware of self worth, or other ways to relate to God? I would like to express an opinion about God, a different perspective.
yeah, ok. An opinion on God. I have read enough of your post to respect your views highly, and as you’ve read my rant, you’ll know how defensive, hostile, and biased I am. So I would like to hear it now, as I think it might be very helpful
****************************
Note to any others, there are other posts about god you can debate on, don’t try it here.
This is specifically about self worth and esteem and my messed up childhood.
after you Richard…
Which is why I directed Richard to my post ;)
And… surprisingly, my post only got a little bickery after about a week!
Up until then it was very constructive and interesting!
I was quite proud of the effort lol
thank you for those kind words Chunkymove… I too respect your wisdom, and will endeavor not to step all over your wishes here on your post.
I do NOT believe that by going to a Bible, or to a Church we will increase our self worth. As we see, that can have quite the opposite effect. There was a time when the dogma of the Church drove me away from it as well. After gaining some wisdom I have since returned but that is not to know God or increase my self worth… it is for moral support and community. Church is ALL ABOUT community. “whenever 2 or more of you are gathered in my name”… He wanted us to party together in his name.
I’ll stick to my original plan of going within. God exists in the heart of all of us. I believe when we say we are created in God image, we are not talking about ‘his’ looks. But the heart of God exists in the heart of all of us, this is why we can create things so well… we are all creators. God made a perfect world for us, and because he loved us he created in us the ability to choose. This is like the first rule of godly love. So if you are praying… our ability to choose always comes first. We can pray for world peace and yes it has some value, but as long as we have people in the world willing to bomb their brothers and sisters… that prayer will take a back seat. To the little boy that got locked in the closet and forced to read the Bible… God did not do that. God has to give the whacked mom the opportunity to choose. Our suffering is not laid upon us by God, but rather he has given us the choice.
I’m broke today… The only gifts I have for my children this Christmas so far are those that others have given me to give (one or two each). God did not do this to me, the company I work with chose to lay me off. My government chose to end my unemployment. God has provided everything for my happiness. That is the perspective I choose. And in that perspective others have come to my aid, and in the 11th hour, my government unemployment was extended. I’m still looking for work, but that is because I’ve not found the job God has put out there for me. These are my choices. And every time one of my personal choices are fulfilled, my self worth increases… along with self-esteem.
Should God be out of the picture in the question of self worth, no… I don’t think so. But it is not what God does that makes Self Worth better. It is only what you choose to do with what God has given you that will make it better. I think Hitler probably had a good amount of self worth. As a military man he was obviously an expert. He chose a more whacked path however that eventually became his down fall… not because God came down and “smote” him…(God freely lets us make choices) because the rest of the world chose to not let his atrocities continue.
hmmm well rambled long enough. I hope my point was made without offense.
Bright blessings ~ Richard
PS Dougie… I’ll read your post and give you a shout :)
Thanks Richard.
No offence at all. I am never offended by others beliefs and if they are trying to help, then I truly respect that.
And in your case, it was helpful.
Some bits in there that I was able to use ( not saying the rest wasn’t great, just got walls up or don’t know how to use it)
Church meaning community. Yes indeed. I realised even as as child that the ladies making the cakes for the church fete knew more about religion than the preachers I was discussing dogma with. I miss those ladies and look forward to the day I can share food with them again. Also, when I saw people singing with their arms in the air, I read it as “isn’t it great to be with other people, accepted and singing”.
God being in our hearts? If god is love, and love is from the heart, this makes sense to me. Also with the creative part being god, this is something I’ve only recently be able to develop again. To much fear, and the need to be accurate. Now I can make stuff up, and make mistakes and fail, be human as it were.
I like you not attributing god for two reasons. One, it doesn’t help solve the problem in my opinion, and ( and this is slightly controversial ) it can prevent people from having to take responsibility for how their poor choice of actions affect others.
Sorry to here about employment troubles, but its cool that you see the bigger picture that you have friends around, and happy kids. You’ve already won as a dad. Still, best of luck with the work.
**personal choices are fulfilled, my self worth increases** fra-BAM.
I thought about all the times it went up and down, and this was hugely related. Not success/failure, helpful, or even goals met. If I hadn’t set the goal, or somehow I stumbled upon success without choice, it wasn’t nearly so yummy ( getting late here and that’s the word that came to mind) as those time where I choose it outright with no reservations afterwards, and then choice fulfilled. And those time in the negative, where I choose something and it didn’t happen - devastated. So make proactive choices about things that are possible, then make them happen. Hmm now I sound like every other motivation tapes seller… with the motivation to match!!!! (:-o)
and finally, very empowering view that positive changes happens because of peoples decisions and actions.
thanks again for your ramble
lol… one day I will make a mint by selling my motivational tapes :D
Richard cor de lyon wrote:
lol… one day I will make a mint by selling my motivational tapes :D
One day!
Man… do it now :D
in the works ;) takes a little more capitol than I have now.
Richard cor de lyon wrote:
in the works ;) takes a little more capitol than I have now.
I understand :)
I have about fifty irons on the fire!
But one day :D
Richard cor de lyon wrote:
lol… one day I will make a mint by selling my motivational tapes :D
Can’t offer to proof read, but if you think I can help, even if its in a few months, let me know.
hehehe… oh and Chunky… look out for me…
I’m heading north soon….
For a visit!
This reply has been removed.
Chunky, thanks for the invite. I eschew much touchy-feely discourse, so this’ll be my singular reply. IMHO, self-esteem essentially deals with pride in self (not vanity), i.e., how proud YOU are of YOUR principles, ethics, workmanship, loyalty, etc. OTOH, self-worth is how high your gut imagines OTHERS value you- on knowing you, on being your friend, colleague, mate, etc. Confusion probably arises because one connotation for “esteem” is “worth”/value.
I’d wager that schism reflects experiences during your formative years. FWIW, my folks were emotionally distant, unsupportive, very judgmental. Any wonder I turned out to be such an opinionated SOB? Fortunately, in the next “rings” out, my grandparents, teachers and friends were mostly supportive and nonjudgemental, though I was burned a few times when trust was extended too freely. The result - inability to comprehend “unconditional” love; mixed messages about “self-worth;” yet both instinctively and via feedback knowing I was principled, ethical, loyal, responsible and respected. I live an uneasy truce with the dichotomy cause it’s “all in my head.” :-)
Personally, I’d rather endure that imbalance than grow up with a false notion I’m “great” just because liberals patted my head and handed me trophies I hadn’t earned. IMHO, the politically correct farce of artificially “elevating” kids’ self-esteem through false praise and phony prizes creates a sense of spoiled delusion and obliviousness that runs smack into the hard brick wall of reality when they enter the real world.
honesty and insight noticed and appreciated.
My parents were confusing, the best analogy I think would be a poker machine. I thought I had unconditional love, I had real trophies on the shelf to back up the pats on the head, but something was always churning down in the gut.
just deleted a few paragraphs of angry emotional Freudian ranting.
Time to find a good shrink, but they are hard to find for someone like me. My troubles, nay opportunities, are deep and tangled and many - but I’m not so special and unique as to be the first to face them. Well I hope so anyway…
Ok, booked in 9:30am Friday. Naaarrrrrrrh
thanks prisca
HI Chunkymove….I stumbled across your post and thought I might help here.
Just a few years I asked myself similiar questions, what is self esteem and self worth, and I really didn’t have either at the time.
I now believe that I have both and learned that while my selfesteem was plummetting, my self worth was lost in the shuffle as well.
Self esteem in my humble definition is confidence in myself, to know that I am a wonderful, loving, caring mother, friend, sister, daughter, niece, aunt (and every other hat I wear).
Self worth is IMHO my value to my own life and those that surrounded me be it personal, work, and daily interactions with whomever I come into contact with face to face, over the ‘net, etc. It is how I conduct myself as a person, with honor, integrity, dignity, and a bit of pride. To know, that I do my best to leave the world a bit better than how I found it. to act with grace in the face of adversity but not to cower / be a door mat.
I want people to value what I have to offer, but I will not allow myself to be degraded by mindless arrogant fools that think the world of themselves because of their personal possesions or because they were handed praise by people who didn’t want to deal with their “rudeness” as child or adult. their opinions good or bad of who I am are meaningless.
I value the honest, caring and honorable opinions of the people who actually mean something to me, because if they are someone I call a ‘friend’ rest assured they exude the values I seek in my ownself.
I hope this helps you!
chunkymove wrote:
Time to find a good shrink, but they are hard to find for someone like me. My troubles, nay opportunities, are deep and tangled and many - but I’m not so special and unique as to be the first to face them. Well I hope so anyway…
Ok, booked in 9:30am Friday. Naaarrrrrrrh
Did it, phwarrr that was hard.
Jade wrote:
HI Chunkymove….I stumbled across your post and thought I might help here.
Just a few years I asked myself similiar questions, what is self esteem and self worth, and I really didn’t have either at the time.
I now believe that I have both and learned that while my selfesteem was plummetting, my self worth was lost in the shuffle as well.
Self esteem in my humble definition is confidence in myself, to know that I am a wonderful, loving, caring mother, friend, sister, daughter, niece, aunt (and every other hat I wear).
Self worth is IMHO my value to my own life and those that surrounded me be it personal, work, and daily interactions with whomever I come into contact with face to face, over the ‘net, etc. It is how I conduct myself as a person, with honor, integrity, dignity, and a bit of pride. To know, that I do my best to leave the world a bit better than how I found it. to act with grace in the face of adversity but not to cower / be a door mat.
I want people to value what I have to offer, but I will not allow myself to be degraded by mindless arrogant fools that think the world of themselves because of their personal possesions or because they were handed praise by people who didn’t want to deal with their “rudeness” as child or adult. their opinions good or bad of who I am are meaningless.
I value the honest, caring and honorable opinions of the people who actually mean something to me, because if they are someone I call a ‘friend’ rest assured they exude the values I seek in my ownself.
I hope this helps you!
overloaded atm after visiting doc, but thanks for taking the time to explain that.
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If you don’t have it, you’ll never have it. You’re either born with it, or there’s no way to get it. This is one of the rare values that cannot be cultivated by experience or whatsoever. And, logically thinking, if you really miss it, you’d be busy with other things instead of asking this, while if you have it, there’s no need to ask, so you just playin
This account has been deactivated.
De wrote:
If you don’t have it, you’ll never have it. You’re either born with it, or there’s no way to get it. This is one of the rare values that cannot be cultivated by experience or whatsoever. And, logically thinking, if you really miss it, you’d be busy with other things instead of asking this, while if you have it, there’s no need to ask, so you just playin
I couldn’t disagree with you more…everyone has self worth, self esteem is based on your life experiences and how you choose to handle them/affect you. A person can improve their self esteem and their self worth by doing both a little soul searching and a spending time on digesting their lessons in life and learning all they can from it thereby earning wisdom and gain confidence - IF THEY SO CHOOSE THAT AS AN OPTION.
Well said Jade.
The trick for me was accpeting all the fractured parts of my identity. “I” was worth nothing to “me” because “I” always did the right thing, and not what “me” needed. I started being selfish and true looking after myself on all levels and “me” started valuing “I” very highly.
Sounds crazy? True, but it worked, and it’s working better for all those around me too.
congratulations Chunkymove….now I don’t know your age but why the hell didn’t I figure all this out before I was in my 40’s!!!! LOL
Jade wrote:
congratulations Chunkymove….now I don’t know your age but why the hell didn’t I figure all this out before I was in my 40’s!!!! LOL
Thanks Jade, I’m glad that makes sense to you. People my age are not on the same page as me on this one, but I had the triggers of mid-life crisis a bit earlier than most.
Side note. Epicurius said to happy we need friends, freedom, and “a considered life”. I thought the last bit wasn’t snappy and now prefer “digesting their lessons in life”
Self-esteem and self-worth are the same thing. If you think about it you will be able to see why. Self-esteem is what is needed to help us decide things about ourselves. Therefore, self-worth is our self-esteem. If we cannot esteem ourselves then it is difficult to believe we are worth anything.
melipapillion wrote:
Self-esteem and self-worth are the same thing. If you think about it you will be able to see why. Self-esteem is what is needed to help us decide things about ourselves. Therefore, self-worth is our self-esteem. If we cannot esteem ourselves then it is difficult to believe we are worth anything.
Can you explain that again?, didn’t quite follow you.
***pats stomach*** oh my…life has certainly given me much to digest!!!! lol - tums or rolaids work for the tummy, friends and freedom for a well digested life!!!
jade wrote:
***pats stomach*** oh my…life has certainly given me much to digest!!!! lol - tums or rolaids work for the tummy, friends and freedom for a well digested life!!!
Lol - friend and freedom certianly help in digesting life…
melipapillion wrote:
Self-esteem and self-worth are the same thing. If you think about it you will be able to see why. Self-esteem is what is needed to help us decide things about ourselves. Therefore, self-worth is our self-esteem. If we cannot esteem ourselves then it is difficult to believe we are worth anything.
I personally think they are different.
In my case, I know my worth. I know what I’m capable of. I know what I deserve. But I lack self esteem because I am afraid/hesitating to prove myself.
Mmm… but then again, this is just my opinion. I can be “technically” wrong.
my thing was about being afraid and confused, afraid to admit what I really wanted. Once I had done that, and I’d started getting results my “inner self” liked, then I started feeling worth. For me it wasn’t so much a distinction of worth/esteem, but about different parts to “self”, and the worth/esteem were different angles on the same issues.
Why the hesitation dogonit? For me it was sometimes fear, but more often it was that it wasn’t really the direction I wanted.
Anonymous
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10 months ago (1 month, 3 weeks after post)
“Walking away from places or people who are no good for me, even if it hurts.”
How do you know if places and people are hurting you?
that’s a tougher question to answer than I thought. Sometimes the tough places teach you what you need to know. I guess just go with your gut and learning as you go. Hopefully someone else will have a good answer on that one.
chunkymove wrote:
my thing was about being afraid and confused, afraid to admit what I really wanted. Once I had done that, and I’d started getting results my “inner self” liked, then I started feeling worth. For me it wasn’t so much a distinction of worth/esteem, but about different parts to “self”, and the worth/esteem were different angles on the same issues.
Why the hesitation dogonit? For me it was sometimes fear, but more often it was that it wasn’t really the direction I wanted.
Maybe because I’m not used to showing people my mistakes. I don’t trust myself that much… AH! And I just said I know what my capabilities are. xD I know what I’m good at but I don’t feel that what I know is enough.
say again? whats the insight there?
I think EGO plays a grand role in building our self-worth and self-esteeem or destroying them.
I have read Eckhardt Tolle’s books and I believe he was “right on” regarding the ego and it’s excentricities.
The ego is always living in the past or projecting the future. It is always saying “Look how bad things had been” and some deity will make things better in the future.
Since I have read the book “A New Earth” I am able to live for today. There is nothing in the past and the future is filled with empty promises.
Genesis721 wrote:
It is always saying “Look how bad things had been” and some deity will make things better in the future.
Mine is - “look how great things have been in the past, and how great they will be in future” - just as bad really. Always grieving the past and overly optimistic about the future.
I just went to Eckhardt Tolle website… “The only way love can come into your life is not through form, but through that inner spaciousness that is Presence”
inner spaciousness… hmmm
which book was about EGO?
The one book that I have read about ego and that is called “A New Earth.” I also visited Oprah’s sight and watch Eckhardt Tolle and Oprah for Ten Sessions on the Web.
The other book that I am currently reading is called “The Power of Now”.
Reading the book “A New Earth” really changed my life. How so? I let go of my inner fears, I also let go of my prejudices and predeterminations of people. I decided to live for today and live in the “Now”.
The “Presence” is more precious than we want to realize. Nothing can change the past and if we live in the Presense we can have much more control over our future.
Make a new POST so i can “help” you =P
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