I believe I can help any agnostic and atheist to believe in God! - Help.com

Nope. Still an atheist.

Still agnostic, hun.

no, it was still chance. You can flip a coin 20 times and get heads every time, its called probability.

Arnday the Imbroglio wrote:
no, it was still chance. You can flip a coin 20 times and get heads every time, its called probability.

exactly.

we could have ended up completely different it dosent even matter if our mouths are on our foreheads and our hands on our feet.. We would learn to work with it. And “god” Is pretty much just the forces of natures not some man sitting in the clouds thinking about OH i’ll do this.. add a little this and then put some of this… its all chance and what ever happens just is how it is… nothing dictates our lives but ourselves…*shrug* I believe there both is and isnt a god at the same time. but NOT the christian idea of god. More of a higher power or force of natures that pretty much IS everything… even us.

lawl

I’ve seen a seal try to mate with a penguin.
Also a dog mate with my leg, the rabbit and small children.

i do believe in a religion but your argument is floored on many levels. The whole point of evolution is that the way things are is the best for what they need. You say eveything has two eyes etc. But not everything does. Many things do because many things evolved from the same single thing and the eyes are a common feature. just like we have the same amount of bones in our arms as fish because we have a common genetic pool. However fish have fins because they need them to swim and we have hands because we need them for… lots of stuff…

Things dont mate with other things to produce evolutionary change. Evolution works through slection of the best features. So the Giraffe with the longest neck could get the food at the highest points and so was healthiest and so bred and had little babies that had long necks to and so on.

The human brain evolved because we needed to work out how to solve problems. The apes that could solve the problem of how to get the best food were strongest and so servived and bred and had similarily smart offspring.

Your argument it floored becuase you are trying to use anti-science to prove religion when really religion is a belief system that should not have to be proved otherwise why would it be called a belief.

Thank you and I would love some responses to my and the creators comments debates like this are my favourate. Hence me being an RE teacher!

Eyes are formed through natural selection. That is why there are so many different types of eye sight, and why there are so many different things that can go wrong with this sense in all species.
If it was a divine design then there would never be any problems. Don’t make me go on and on about the human body and its flaws.
Why would you want to try and change my mind.

Sorry for all the spelling mistakes i was typing to fast for my brain!

Teacher tut tut lol!!

people belive what they do becuase they have beliefs about God from within and project it out into the world. if a person feels abondaned by God, their perception of the world, is a reality without God, thus abandening God. If a person feels judged by God, the see the world as a place where people go to either heaven or heal. and if a person feels at one with God, the experiance a healing and forgiving world. we convince ourselves that we belive things based on the outside, but thats not true. everything a person thinks about the world, is actually what they beleive about themselves projected outward

What if you have never felt anything to be abandoned by.

then your life would be complete and within Heaven

I only skimmed through the post but I know that logic will fail to show you the truth, you have to trust what the Spirit says. Logic fails at understanding the most important parts of life, and science falls short of fillfulling peoples hearts

Well, I applaud your efforts my friend but in spite of your ostentatious rationale, I feel compelled to advise you that you are not the first person to introduce this ambiguous philosophy. Just remember that pretension will never cease to exist as long as the earth is still convex and in orbit.

glamourboy wrote:
I know that logic will fail to show you the truth

What on Earth gave you that idea?

its true, logic just fails

logic has worked for me so far.

logic is based on thw world and what we think we know, but God is beyond the world and our small minded logic games. logic is a way of trying to know reality, but we dont know reality because we dont know all of the foundation of reality, the foundation of reality is in God, and we dont know much about God except that he loves us. Logic is based on rules that we set up, they have no merit in heaven where God makes the rules. Logic is based on the ego, and the world the Ego made. Heaven and truth is based on a stae of reality beyond our perception.

Were you brought up religious or did you find this yourself?

You just made me believe!

I believe I’ll have a beer with my lunch!

I beg to differ. You’re claiming that logic is based on ego? Logic is the science of reasoning or anything that can be inferred from validation or derivation. Logic can be verified, and is a term we use assertively when justifying terrestrial concepts. Without logic, we would be wandering astray and probably engrossed with many delusions.

I perceive it, but it can’t be perceived. lolwtfroflbbqsauce

the spirit tells me this

PheeGee wrote:
Were you brought up religious or did you find this yourself?

“the spirit” tells you this how?

he lets me know

right.

So why do you think that that should be more important than actually thinking for yourself and finding evidence?

you just dont understand, I fell like your attacking my spirutal beleifs, just becuase I belive in spirituality doenst mean their invalid. Logic hasnt tought you tolerance for other peoples belifes. Life is more than cold, hard facts. I think your mean

I’m sorry that you felt i was attacking your personal beliefs. But in fairness you did just say that the way i live my life is “small minded” and ego driven.

So many wrong conflations. It’s no wonder people fail.

iam just saying logic wont tell you everything about life

Fine, anyway, this is obviously one of those things which people will NEVER agree on and im getting bored so I’m gonna go grab a bacon sandwich and desert this thread in favour of facebook.

Faith is weak and vile.

Let me define the idea that I’m talking about when I use the word faith.

When I say faith, I am talking about a belief that is not supported by evidence or probability, a belief that is contradicted by evidence or probability, or a belief that is held contrary to a more evidenced or probable belief.

Now. The first question we must ask is, “What is beneficial about the faith I defined?”

If the belief is a positive belief, then it can provide a person with a means of enduring negative things and comfort.

Let us not ignore the other kind of faith, a negative belief.

If a negative belief held in faith causes you to take extreme precautions and preparations, and something bad does happen, then it will help you survive it. However, that benefit won’t happen if you don’t take any precautions or make any preparations.

Now. The next question we must ask is, “What is harmful about the faith I defined?”

If the belief is a positive belief, it places the focus on enduring negative things instead of improving them.

If the belief is a negative belief, it can cause unnecessary apprehension, fear, and stress. It is even more harmful if it doesn’t result in at least some level of precaution and preparation.

At this point, it must be said that coincidental events (events without any will or personal control behind them) can support a faith based system a fairly large amount of the time. Observation supports the idea that good and bad things happen to people of all types fairly equally among the groups. So there are going to be instances when you believe that something good will happen and it will, and you believe that something bad will happen and it will.

Basically, it gets people by. That doesn’t sound vile. It isn’t, considered by itself. However, when you consider faith relative to other alternatives, it is so far down from them that it is equivalent to the level of vile (Reminder: The faith is vile. Not the people who have faiths.)

To support my idea that faith is vile, I must present my alternative and support the idea that it is much better than faith. Doing this requires more than a listing of the merits and demerits of my alternative. It requires me to show the gap between my alternative and faith.

My alternative is reason.

Reason is believing an idea because it is the most evidenced or most probable idea.

The question to ask now is, “In what ways is reason better than faith?”

Instead of helping a person merely endure whatever befalls them, and comfort them, reason helps a person combat the negative things that befall them, improve their situation, and make them happier overall.

Reason helps minimize error in expectation, because you neither expect good things for no reason (which results in disappointment), and you neither expect bad things for no reason (which results in undue an unwarranted burden).

“Are there any instances where using faith is better than using reason?”

No. Well-used reason has the potential to provide an optimal solution to any problem.

Let me paraphrase. REASON CAN MAXIMIZE SUCCESS IN VIRTUALLY EVERY SITUATION.

Faith depends upon coincidence and suboptimal solutions.

“Are there any instances where reason is harmful?”

Properly used reason will not cause any harm. There may be bad situations that can only be improved to a certain extent, but it will not make situations any worse than they were initially.

Some other concerns that need addressing.

The idea that hope is equivalent to faith is incorrect. Hope is not a property of faith. True Hope is believing good things will happen for a reason. Good things may happen if you believe they will without a reason, so faith based hope cannot be called false hope, but it can be said to be devoid of any reason or probability.

Other positive feelings are not the property of faith.

I could write pages more, but I imagine you just want the short of it. I think that covers most of my position. There are reasonings for these reasonings, so if there is a specific part you need more support for, just point it out.

Jesus Christ, I think we have a winner.

can you sum this up for me

New American Atheist wrote:

Faith is weak and vile.

Let me define the idea that I’m talking about when I use the word faith.

When I say faith, I am talking about a belief that is not supported by evidence or probability, a belief that is contradicted by evidence or probability, or a belief that is held contrary to a more evidenced or probable belief.

Now. The first question we must ask is, “What is beneficial about the faith I defined?”

If the belief is a positive belief, then it can provide a person with a means of enduring negative things and comfort.

Let us not ignore the other kind of faith, a negative belief.

If a negative belief held in faith causes you to take extreme precautions and preparations, and something bad does happen, then it will help you survive it. However, that benefit won’t happen if you don’t take any precautions or make any preparations.

Now. The next question we must ask is, “What is harmful about the faith I defined?”

If the belief is a positive belief, it places the focus on enduring negative things instead of improving them.

If the belief is a negative belief, it can cause unnecessary apprehension, fear, and stress. It is even more harmful if it doesn’t result in at least some level of precaution and preparation.

At this point, it must be said that coincidental events (events without any will or personal control behind them) can support a faith based system a fairly large amount of the time. Observation supports the idea that good and bad things happen to people of all types fairly equally among the groups. So there are going to be instances when you believe that something good will happen and it will, and you believe that something bad will happen and it will.

Basically, it gets people by. That doesn’t sound vile. It isn’t, considered by itself. However, when you consider faith relative to other alternatives, it is so far down from them that it is equivalent to the level of vile (Reminder: The faith is vile. Not the people who have faiths.)

To support my idea that faith is vile, I must present my alternative and support the idea that it is much better than faith. Doing this requires more than a listing of the merits and demerits of my alternative. It requires me to show the gap between my alternative and faith.

My alternative is reason.

Reason is believing an idea because it is the most evidenced or most probable idea.

The question to ask now is, “In what ways is reason better than faith?”

Instead of helping a person merely endure whatever befalls them, and comfort them, reason helps a person combat the negative things that befall them, improve their situation, and make them happier overall.

Reason helps minimize error in expectation, because you neither expect good things for no reason (which results in disappointment), and you neither expect bad things for no reason (which results in undue an unwarranted burden).

“Are there any instances where using faith is better than using reason?”

No. Well-used reason has the potential to provide an optimal solution to any problem.

Let me paraphrase. REASON CAN MAXIMIZE SUCCESS IN VIRTUALLY EVERY SITUATION.

Faith depends upon coincidence and suboptimal solutions.

“Are there any instances where reason is harmful?”

Properly used reason will not cause any harm. There may be bad situations that can only be improved to a certain extent, but it will not make situations any worse than they were initially.

Some other concerns that need addressing.

The idea that hope is equivalent to faith is incorrect. Hope is not a property of faith. True Hope is believing good things will happen for a reason. Good things may happen if you believe they will without a reason, so faith based hope cannot be called false hope, but it can be said to be devoid of any reason or probability.

Other positive feelings are not the property of faith.

I could write pages more, but I imagine you just want the short of it. I think that covers most of my position. There are reasonings for these reasonings, so if there is a specific part you need more support for, just point it out.

No. Read it as it is.

dont maco religion

mills wrote:
Jesus Christ, I think we have a winner.

Faith is impotent and futile whereas logic is dependable and warrants success.

mock

I am leaving this post

glamourboy wrote:
dont maco religion

mills wrote:
Jesus Christ, I think we have a winner.

I never said anything sardonic about religion. I even capitalized Jesus Christ to delineate my reverence for the biblical character.

PheeGee wrote:
Fine, anyway, this is obviously one of those things which people will NEVER agree on and im getting bored so I’m gonna go grab a bacon sandwich and desert this thread in favour of facebook.

I have some severe love for this post

I can’t stop lawling at this sh!t.

Arnday the Imbroglio wrote:

PheeGee wrote:
Fine, anyway, this is obviously one of those things which people will NEVER agree on and im getting bored so I’m gonna go grab a bacon sandwich and desert this thread in favour of facebook.

I have some severe love for this post

Thank you lol

What makes you think that would be helping someone? What has been done in the name of religion on this earth would make any God give up in frustration. Men/women can be moral and do the right thing without religion. That does not mean I think there is no God. It means I think mankind gets it wrong most of the time when we try to contain God in one religion as opposed to another religion. God is too big to fit into any one religion.