Love help: Africans are poisoning lions by the hundreds ! - Help.com

I agree! Poor things!! How can we help??

That’s awful! but how do we help? i mean, what can we do to make them stop, is there a petition we could sign or something?

Wow that sounds terrible, I will support some kind of petition if we can find one.

Perhaps we can use military force to impose our will on the Africans to make them stop doing things we don’t like them doing. Much better than a petition.

or we could let them do with their countries what they want to do.

Why call peta; they kill animals all the time for their own gain, they will be sympatic to the Africans.

I’ve been doing some research on this carbofuran pesticide and this is seriously bad stuff. The problem isn’t just with lions, it’s with all the wildlife. Anything that grazes on agriculture that’s laced with carbofuran dies. And THEN, every thing that eats that carcass also dies, and so on. This has been causing dramatic drops of wildlife in an already delicate eco-system.

“Simon Thomsett, a world renowned expert on vultures, eagles and other birds of prey, says there has been a “dramatic drop-off in the number of birds of prey in the past few years”, and the finger of blame is being pointed at carbofuran.

He gives the example of 187 vultures that died when they fed on a carcass of an animal that was apparently laced with the deadly poison in an area by the Athi River.”
-http://petroleumjournalsonline.com/pjo/index.php/world-mainmenu-26/africa -mainmenu-27/35-killing-kenya-lions

Currently Dr Leakey is heading the ban on carbofuran in Kenya. Though unsuccessful he maintains an effort to stop this silent killer. Fight strong Leakey!

I was doing some research too; since the world forced Africa to ban the use of DDT
“Africa accounts for over 90 per cent of the 1.5 to 2 million global malaria deaths yearly. In many countries, the scourge is hardest on children from ages 1-5 with a child dying every 30 seconds. In the last decades, the prevalence of malaria in most of the affected countries has taken a huge toll on their health budgets and human resources despite efforts to keep the disease under control.”

I think your right, there may be need for some parts of Africa to have some DDT exemptions. And in fact there are such exemptions in place.

Firstly, we would need to determine if such an approach will be productive, not counter-productive. For instance, a few studies show, that in some areas, the infantile birth defects and deaths that would be caused by vector controlled DDT spraying would be less than or equal to deaths caused by a deterred malaria.

Yet there are serious issues with using DDT environmentally. The DDT compound breaks down slowly and enters the world food via run off and ocean currents. Also it metabolites (breakdown parts) DDE and DDD are dangerous too. A study in which there were both high and low levels of DDE found in lactating mothers, the mothers with high levels lactated on average, 3.5 months, the mothers with low levels lactated for 7.5 months. There were 700+ milk samples tested by the USDA in 2005, 85% had detectable levels of DDE.

We do not want anymore of this chemical than necessary. Scientific studies must be the deciding factor in whether or not these kinds of actions will be deemed acceptable.

We should let the Africas do what they want with their countyies and stop trying to force them to agree with our standards and way of life.

Why? They do terrible things with their countries, commit genocide, abuse civilian rights, poison wildlife with disregard to the eco-system, the list goes on. You know Africans were the ones who started the African slave trade? Tribes would capture other tribesman and try to sell them to white men, arabs actually. They were the first, in the 10th century, according to wiki. Then the white men got ideas.
In fact, Africa is one of the places where slavery still exists in the world. Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not saying they were to blame for the trans-atlantic slave trade, just saying that without proper judicial systems things get chaotic, dangerous, and downright evil. So really I think we’re just lending them a hand so that they can take care of their own countries. I could be wrong though.

If thats what they want, than that is what they want. Who are we to say they should change?

We are NATO, the United Nations, and a voice of justice and peace in a land full of strife, disease and injustice. I’m sure if you ask them, many Africans would say please, HELP US. The facts are they don’t have the resources to find the best solution, we do. It’s as simple as that. Don’t you feel responsible for making sure they choose correctly?

Why would I be responsible for a group of people unrelated to me. They are humans just like me they are free to choose what ever they want in life and do not need me to be responsible for them.

Besides that I fail to see how “voice of justice and peace in a land full of strife, disease and injustice” describes the west. Its hard from me to believe that we know what’s best for them even if we where responsible for them (which we are not).

The West being a formation of countries that are in league with organizations that have the worlds interests at heart, have a responsibility to maintain world order, justice and health. That includes the eco-system and chemical distribution of the continent of Africa. Now I certainly believe that Africans have a right to their own liberty, but I do not believe the have the right to poison countless habitants of their eco system and the land on which they live. Whether some herdsman or pastoralist thinks it might be a good idea to poison the leapords and lions is not my concern. My concern if for the stability of an eco system that drives tourism, and breeds diversity, and for the standard of health for the entire world. These DDTs don’t disappear, they enter the world food web through run off, rivers, then the oceanic current. Chances are you have them in your body, and me too. I don’t want more. And I don’t think they should use more, unless it’s absolutely necessary.

So than the west should police the world?

I could live with that; so long as we do it all the way. We don’t like that a country is killing lions; we force them to stop. We don’t like that a country poses a threat to us we force them to stop. We don’t like a country doesn’t have the same moral code as we do; we force them to conform to our way off life.

Yeh that’s the spirit. And if we didn’t like your attitude that means we to force you to shut up! Or would that be against constitutional rights?

Well hey. while we we’re at it, let’s just convert to fascism, dominate the world, have mandatory military training, and take away freedom of speech.

/facepalm /

Oh I see; so then who gets to decide what things we are allowed to force on others and what we are not allowed to force on others?

Why is it ok to force the Africans to stop using pesticides but it’s not ok to force Muslims to convert to Christianity?

Wow, would you really want to convert Muslims to Christianity? That’s really low man. Religious freedom has been one of our best liberties. Why would you take that away?

The people who decide what we are and are not allowed to force are those who spend their entire time studying ethics, politics, world economy, and the corrupted corporations that can afford to lobby for their interests. Not exactly how I would have it but we live in an imperfect. Let’s make it safer.

No I wouldn’t want to convert Muslims to Christianity; I am an atheist.

I just don’t understand how you make the distinction that it’s ok to force one way of life on a group of people, but at the same time find it low to force another way of life on other group of people.

You are being hypocritical. Ether its ok to force people to follow our way of life; or its not ok to force them. It can’t be ok in one instance and not ok in another.

In my opinion it’s wrong to force either group (or any group) to follow your way of life. You seem to think its ok to force Africans but not Muslims, that is not consistent.

Life is full of distinctions. On the topic of forcing people to do something many different contributing factors can make distinctions between groups that would allow forcible coercion to be ethically correct. Mostly these distinctions are the actions of said group. When this group is causing harm to your person or group it would be cause to intervene on their actions. I would say if they’re causing harm to their own group it would be cause to intervene, depending on the cost of such an intervention. Not all would agree with me, but many would. And I don’t think it’s your intention to start a debate (if it is we could start a new post).

I’m also not sure what you mean when you say “way of life”. We wouldn’t be forcing a way of life upon African’s simply be ensuring that safe procedures and protocols are taken when concerning their local wildlife, and our global toxicology.

See the problem is your statement is it’s too general and vague. Take for instance the group that followed Charles Manson. They went around killing people including children, would it be wrong to force them to rejoin the rest of societies way of life? You need to rethink your values by the sound of things.

OK… Ehm, my view on the continent of Africa? Unfortunately they suffer from what could be said to be a continental debt, owed mainly to the west. This has been cut in recent years but its still an astronomical figure. Billions of dollars of aid is sent every year which is taken by corrupt governments from the hands and mouths of its people.

China are the biggest investors in Africa and are currently building a motorway from one end to the other, and generally improving the infrastructure of the country. China are investing in Africa in return for the lions share of raw materials needed to fuel their booming economy. All the while The western world have their fingers in the oil reserves Africa has and in many cases it suits us to be friendly with the warlords and dictators. Mugabe being the perfect example.

The continent doesn’t have much say in where it goes due to the huge debt and its complete reliance on the support of outside nations leeching off it in return for maintenance of its infrastructure. The British and Dutch left the continent and left behind them a husk, worthless and deprived. the western world has shaped Africa since we found out about the place and we will continue to exploit it for resources. when we discovered Africa it was slaves, then other trade goods and of course oil, gold and raw materials even the Romans treated the place similarly.

Africa is in other words, the worlds *****. we will only ever intervene there when it makes financial sense, if you know what I mean. As for the DDT and this other pesticide, their are natural alternatives which wouldn’t harm the environment or animal life some gets sent over in aid from animal charities but not enough will get through unless its price is lowered to within that of Africa’s budget. But in this world its profit before people after all.

Joshy woshy Poshy wrote:
OK… Ehm, my view on the continent of Africa?…in this world its profit before people after all.

That is one seriously pessimistic attitude. While what you say does often seem to be true, there are people interested in making this world a better place. Don’t you want to live in world where it’s people before profit? Many people do and those that have the power to help, Africa is one of the places they flock to because they need the help so bad.

How much our Governments dabble in the affairs of the African politics I don’t rightly know. But I sure hope they do more because they certainly have had enough strife in history.

Quantum_Spirit wrote:

Joshy woshy Poshy wrote:
OK… Ehm, my view on the continent of Africa?…in this world its profit before people after all.

That is one seriously pessimistic attitude. While what you say does often seem to be true, there are people interested in making this world a better place. Don’t you want to live in world where it’s people before profit? Many people do and those that have the power to help, Africa is one of the places they flock to because they need the help so bad.

How much our Governments dabble in the affairs of the African politics I don’t rightly know. But I sure hope they do more because they certainly have had enough strife in history.

Well charity starts at home as they say, GB had a national debt and now its twice as big as this point last year. we have to get our house sorted before we can help in Africa. I was part of the G8 march in Edinburgh so i would love to be able to help change the country. Im a youth worker in this country and seeing the poverty and deprivation on my doorstep im busy here, i cant afford to go to Africa to help in anyway although id like to.

Realism can often be interpreted as pessimism. Im realistic about what I or any government can do to help. and that is. what is financially acceptable. Its profit before people unfortunately.

I for one think Africa can only work if it successfully becomes financially independent and that takes infrastructure and business which creates jobs, which generates money, which makes for a healthy country. Africa is missing the infrastructure but china is building that fir them, providing jobs and companies and building for Africa the beginning of a new economy their. China and the rising eastern world not the west will be the catalyst for Africa to become financial stable, however the continent needs to also become politically stable… which is more difficult.

Yes, I for one can certainly relate to realism sounding like pessimism. I’m sorry if there was some perceived offense, but I didn’t intend one. I don’t really partake in much charity work, so I guess I’m a bit of a hypocrite. But I intend to in the foreseeable future.

I’m so glad that China is helping with building Africa an infrastructure. Hopefully they’ll have a less corrupt political system in the near future.

Quantum_Spirit wrote:
Yes, I for one can certainly relate to realism sounding like pessimism. I’m sorry if there was some perceived offense, but I didn’t intend one. I don’t really partake in much charity work, so I guess I’m a bit of a hypocrite. But I intend to in the foreseeable future.

I’m so glad that China is helping with building Africa an infrastructure. Hopefully they’ll have a less corrupt political system in the near future.

Yes but they will ironically leave Africa without the natural resources needed to build an economy in the way china has. China are doing this for China not Africa.
but its a start at least. And heck i volunteer a lot, i spent two years volunteering to get the experience to get into college and i still volunteer on top of that lol.