i often have thoughts of the same nature if there was a god and he created us in his image then what does that tell you about god if we humans kill other humans and animals who does god kill us or other higher beings that we don’t know about?
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I suppose I am more like Jerry the Hat, anytime will do…so long as it isn’t prolonged. But really man, you should consider rethinking your code of ethics; death for amusement? I may admit that death isn’t the end of the world, but it’s the of “a world”.
I really think your missing the point of my post. Conscious existence can be so much more, it can be eternal, we just don’t live in that world. We live in a world where killing is justified by the continuation of life, death is inevitable. But many people confuse that inevitability with lack of significance. Death is the end of a complex biological system of molecules that, in some cases, structuralize sentience. That system has beauty, grandeur, and the ability to grow into something more. Yet that system also has developed the nasty habit of utilizing and destroying other systems for personal gain. An inherent evil, destructive nature, causality, call it what you will, but this world…it is hellish.
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I don’t know, it could be.
i like the way you think quantum spirit but i agree the world is hellish just the other week a man brutally beat my friends neighbor she was left there for two days unable to even move it upset me so bad cuz me and my friends are always at his house and we could have helped that woman if only we knew
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That’s atrocious, people should never be treated that way. Yet people are desperate for life and are willing to take drastic actions to pursue their priorities. That’s a really sad story…did she survive?
yes i think she is fine now
LORD GEKKO wrote:
If that is the case, then none of this matters. Kill Kill Kill Die Die Die.
You would support destruction over creation?
LORD GEKKO wrote:
But when you die, your death is for the prolonging of other life. tit for tat.Easy peasy Japanesey. Furthermore, You as one of a quantum mind couldn’t possibly think that the end of this flesh is the end of consciousness, right?
I think it’s entirely possible that the consciousness we perceive is more complex than the brain. But I certainly wouldn’t presume to know that.
Sadly enough, I often wonder the same thing. I think human beings are unconcsiously arrogent in a some ways. One being that some believe they KNOW what is going on in the universe because of stories written by other humans, or their own thoughts. I think ultimately life and the sum of whatever is going on is beyond human comprehension, our brains are like that of other animals, we are not omniscient, or perfect, we are limited. I think there’s way too much killing and bloodshed. I’m a vegetarian for that reason, that and i just love animals too much to eat them. So I comfort myself by knowing I probably am not built well enough to understand why, if there is a why at all.
It is true we are not built well enough to understand, but with current neurological research it is prudent to say that we may yet enhance our consciousness in ways to better our understanding. Human potential, providing we don’t destroy earth, is vast.
Quantum_Spirit wrote:
It is true we are not built well enough to understand, but with current neurological research it is prudent to say that we may yet enhance our consciousness in ways to better our understanding. Human potential, providing we don’t destroy earth, is vast.
I certainly agree. I just find it unfortunate that many people think they know it all, thus often their “reasons” for causing violence and death.
Or they simply don’t think of what they’re doing or the consequences, they just don’t care.
Quantum_Spirit wrote:
Or they simply don’t think of what they’re doing or the consequences, they just don’t care.
True also. It’s a sick sick world and I’m depressed a lot. But it makes those beautiful times so much more precious. Like seeing nature’s beauty. Or receiving love from anyone/thing. Things money cant buy. That’s when it’s all worth it!
Oh it’s definitely all worth it if we manage to have world peace in the future. That’s how I think it’s plausible for there to be an all-knowing god. Perhaps bad things need to happen for good things to happen in the future. History has shown that the fate of one man can affect the world drastically, and every happening now affects the future lives of our children. It’s commonly known as the butterfly effect and it’s the only redeeming concept I have thought of to explain an all-knowing God.
I’m glad that helps you. Personally, some things I just dont see any reason for happening, fate or otherwise. An all knowing god is a comforting thought, but a very unrealistic one for me.
I’ve thought about this rather deeply, and it is rather probable depending on a maximum potential for intelligence and awareness. I just don’t know why he doesn’t help us…
In my opinion it’s cause he’s not there. Why would some all knowing creator create this mess? Why create evil, pain, sadness at all? It just doesn’t follow logic to me. And why all the mystery? Why not tell us? Why let people die in their name daily? Dont get me wrong, i believe in some higher power, but it could just be senseless (to humans) nature, or something that cares not a bit about huma beings. I’m an agnostic if you can’t tell!
Because we have assumed dominion over this planet, because we assume to be the smarter species, we kill and think we have every right because we think we own the planet.
I’ve thought about this, and to eliminate our need to kill other things, we would first have to eliminate our feelings of greed, jealousy, a hunger for power and our over all need to put our metaphorical flags in the ground and say “its mine”.
Which is just unrealistic. It wont happen, everyone around the world would have to eliminate these feelings.
And you know what my big probelm with everyone complaining about God not caring about how sad, horrible things hapen? If you believe in God than you believe he gave us free choice - and for us to say “YEAH free choice! But hey when we f*** up royally, can you come down and fix everything?” is bullshite. We have done this to ourselves.
We may not be guilty, but we are responsible.
And why does everyone think sadness is so horrible? Its one of the many feelings we have on a large scale of emotions. They help us realize things, and sadness is reality. I dont understand how people expect to be happy all the time. You cant be angry or jealous, or sad or elevated or hyper or exsistential ALL the time, so why is that everyone aims to be happy all the time? I want to experience all that being a human has to offer.
never picture god or imagine god, because god is more than an image, or emotion, or object. first of all you have a choice to live or die, which would be impossible if you could not kill or be killed. our minds are more important than our bodies because flesh can decompose, but no one has proven that the mind ever ends. therefore does life truely end, or maybe only matter itself has an ending. do you understand metaphisics, if not understand this, there is more than one side to life, and that side is called death.
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It is a way of life, true, but does it have to be? The plants are alive, what did they kill? Microbes, perhaps but probably in defending it’s own system. Plant life is more beautiful than us, in some ways, because they get their energy from the sun, and nutrients directly from the soil. They don’t need to destroy, they simply create.
I wouldn’t say I have disdain for killing, maybe for an unjust world, but killing is necessary for our way of life and I accept that, for now. I’m not a vegetarian, though I’ve considered am still considering. Meat does seem addictive to me, it tastes very good, and effectively I don’t save an animal by being a vegetarian. But perhaps one day we won’t need to destroy life, we will simply create what is necessary for nutrition and energy.
Also this screen is most definitely not the cause for the death of animals. The production of this screen was made by people who may or may not eat meat, though the majority of it was built automatically. But there is no direct cause for death involved with this computer. I really don’t see how my computer screen replaces an animal either.
I don’t agree with that yin and yang logic. Without bad there is no good, without death there is no life. This is just a philosophical paraphrase designed to show how absence can give you appreciation for what is there. The logic doesn’t work. It’s like saying
1 + 1 = 2, but 2 - 1 = 0. It just doesn’t work that way. If you were immortal you would still be very alive. If death had never happened before, than existence would just be considered eternal, you would have a beginning and no end. Absence of death would not change the status of being alive.
Im not exactly sure if this post started with life and death, or the perception of god, in my view death for amusement is wrong, but I also believe very much in the god created us in his image thing. the point people tend to leave out is with that comes will. we can chose weather or not to kill, as for supporting death for life, the same bible that says god created man in his image says god gave man dominion over the earth and the creatures thereon. but turning the point away from the religious aspect to some degree, we grow fruit and vegetables, and we kill them to eat them, the same holds true of cattle, and Ive never felt any remorse over eating a deer. especially since while my brother was pulling the dumb thing back to the truck it was still trying to graze.. but one person chosing to kill another person I think thats completely different. and I agree. its wrong.
Deer aren’t as dumb as you may think. In fact most people don’t think about like to think about how intelligent animals really are. Killing an animal is very similar to killing a baby, except animals don’t really grow into intelligent people…unless you believe in evolution.
The deer going to graze doesn’t surprise and truly saddens me. Grazing is most of the pleasure a deer has in life and probably saw that as the last opportunity for joy before death. It’s like a dying person lighting up a cigarette, or a last meal on death row…not surprising at all really, just sad.
*think about or don’t like to think about*
you know what I mean.
I understand what you mean. and I hope I didnt offend you. that was not my intention. just makeing a point “for the other side” of this fence if you take my meaning.
Phantom gentleman wrote:
I the same bible that says god created man in his image says god gave man dominion over the earth and the creatures thereon.
The god that made us in his image is a god of earth, not a god of the universe. Here on earth, we are like gods. In the universe we are like parasites, consuming resources and destroying the host.
which only further serves to prove we are only a small part of something much larger ;)
Phantom gentleman wrote:
I understand what you mean. and I hope I didnt offend you. that was not my intention. just makeing a point “for the other side” of this fence if you take my meaning.
You certainly didn’t offend me. There was a time I wanted to go hunting. I was young and my father told me not to. It made him sad to kill a deer, and I would feel the same way. You can see the life in their eyes, the Romans were right when they said the eyes are the gateway to the soul. If you have the state of mind to listen to animals, and to observe you can begin to see how their mind works. It’s very primitive, but occasionally you find ones that are intrigued with social interactions. Those are the ones I love. I suppose that’s how we started living with dogs. I once saw a video of a deer who lived in a woman’s house and acted almost exactly like a dog, and wasn’t afraid at all of the dog it lived with. :D
Phantom gentleman wrote:
which only further serves to prove we are only a small part of something much larger ;)
Would you care to elaborate on that?
it just seems funny to me how big this dog eat dog world is, until you compare it to the galaxy which in turn is small compared to the universe and it all starts (so they say ) with qwarks and atoms I am amused by the irony.
but yeah back to the topic at hand we as people have the ability to do some amazing things, it sometimes boggles my mind that instead we seem to prefer to chose the atrocious. it kind of points to darwin’s theory. the strong, or the lucky (I added that part myself) continue to thrive while the weak or the unfortunate do not.
What would luck have to do with it?
I also find this world to be daunting in grandeur and then I consider the solar system…I stop there (not really) because getting my mind around 100s of light years away is just too much 13.7 billion light years is just mind boggling. That fact is kind of cool though, because that’s farthest light we have observed and it shows what the big bang looked like 13.7 billion years ago. In fact part of the static you see on a television is afterglow from the big bang. :D
thats fun I didnt know that.
and regarding my “lucky unlucky” I was entertaining a slightly morbid mood when I wrote that, but to explain… the skiier whos been skiing most of his life and gets caught in an avalanche, the elk that gets hit by a car or caught in the forest fire, wasnt nescisarily the slowest or weakest of his particular gang, just in the wrong place at the wrong time. that was all I meant.
but yeah it seems cool and yet strange to me how if you look higher theres always something above, and if you look lower.. even though we havent found em yet, theres always something beneath. I bet one day we even find something smaller than the qwark. I think we should call it “the steve” that would be fun. but the point is there doesnt seem to be a beginning or an end to it.
Yes that’s all very interesting, though I’m not sure what you mean when you say that there doesn’t seem to be a beginning or end. What exactly are you is it?
What exactly is it? > what I meant to say.
well lets start the scale with ourselves and go upward, the earth we live on is bigger and more amazing than we are, and then we take the galaxy, the universe, (which science tells us is still expanding.) and we dont know whats bigger than that because we havent reached the end of it yet.
and then we go smaller theres the sand that makes up the earth and water, and all of these things are made of molecules, which in turn are made of atoms, which in turn are made of qwarks and noone is really sure what makes a qwark. (I could be spelling that wrong) and thats what I mean, the scale seems infinite. its kind of mind blowing.
This reminds of the Zeno, a philosopher in the B.C. era, who came up with several similar paradoxes. I’m going copy and paste here from wiki one of them.
“Suppose Homer wants to catch a stationary bus. Before he can get there, he must get halfway there. Before he can get halfway there, he must get a quarter of the way there. Before traveling a fourth, he must travel one-eighth; before an eighth, one-sixteenth; and so on.”
The point is, if space were infinitely divisible you would never get there. These paradoxes were only disproved recently with complex calculus, and I don’t really understand how. It could that means even if space were infinitely divisible you would get there(which doesn’t seem right in my mind), or that’s simply not possible. I don’t know I’ve still got to research that one.
its shocking isnt it? so much to be sad about in the world, and yet.. so much that takes your breath away.
I think God is in a constant process of reincarnating, if God is everything then there is no serperation between the the prey and the preyed. They are all a part of the same Ultimate being. You can alter energy, but never destroy it.
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In reality, there is no separation between the prey and the preyed except the space between molecules, the biological system that structures and defines them, and the consciousness that they experience. Ultimately they are both parts of the universe, as are we, and all of this can be classified as one, if you wish to. Whether or not God is everything, and or vice versa I cannot say.
Why would you think God is in a constant state of reincarnation?
Because of mans inate desire to kill. war and will dance together to cause chaos about their feet. While the conscience mind seeks peace for itself it does nothing else but find ways to succeed in this endeavor. So if that means lie, cheat, steal and, murder than so be it. It is population distribution. something like a law of averages. if a certain amount of people didnt die than the world quickly overpopulate but in those who die we must factor in all the different ways they can die. Things like wars are like bad weather that essentially creats new land. death allows for new life. not that i justify the way it has to come about but in this era with this world of people what can you expect.
While what you say is true, death is necessary for our way of life, it is not necessary for life to exist, even in this universe. For example plant life absorbs most of it’s energy from sunlight directly, and receives and organizes it’s nutrients straight from the earth.
It’s a very beautiful system, but because of it’s proficiency, chaos and evolution does not currently allow it develop consciousness. Rather because it doesn’t have a need to experience it’s environment to exist, it does not. Though perhaps there is some internal consciousness that tells it to move this way to get more sunlight, or tells it when to stop producing energy for leaves. Internal systems like this might even exist inside of ourselves to maintain healthy bodily functions.
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