what gives affirmation to life’s ambiguities?
what do you believe in and work towards to create meaning from appearent chaos?
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Since writing this post n0tacr00k may have helped people, but has not within the last 4 days. n0tacr00k is a verified member, has been around for 9 months and has 8 posts and 1,063 replies to their name.
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financial solvency.
what can you work towards or believe in during chaos? you cant control it right ?
pickle chip wrote:
financial solvency.
if true, it stands to affirm the hedonist sector of society. I mean, physicality squared away, what gives people drive?
For me that’s always been the issue, so don’t know.
pickle chip wrote:
For me that’s always been the issue, so don’t know.
perhaps a thread to watch then, eh?
money is not everything. it doesn’t solve all problems. Pain gives people drive. trying to stay away from pain gives people drive.
kwoodson21 wrote:
money is not everything. it doesn’t solve all problems. Pain gives people drive. trying to stay away from pain gives people drive.
yes, I am aware of that, as it is the freudian pleasure principle; however, as a member of the petty-bourgeois, I’ve no trouble with that. However, I still seem to want to have more than playing stocks or playing games: I wish to find something to affirm life as meaningful in a physically pleasent world.
Maybe I’m just some sort of young, naive hippie, but I tend to think that there is more to life than money…
I don’t really know what I work towards; for myself I guess it would be trying to help others make sense of this tumultuous tidal wave called life.
As this may be a vague answer, it is in relation to a “ambig[ious]” question. It would be impossible to relate my impetus to every circumstantial situation in life. Because that is impossible, I relay my general philosophy of my personal “drive” in life.
My essential existence, provides pleasure within the bounds of the social good.
So, by combining a Kierkegaard existentialism, with a Mill Utilitarian ethical theory, I find meaning for myself, through the success and happiness of others and myself, in my my existence.
“The greatest good, for the greatest number[, as it relates to my subjective reality.]”
This is a relativistic approach with strict guidelines. It allows me to have flexibility in my morality, personal pleasures, reasoning, and ideological/theological beliefs, as they meet my hedonistic, changing and evolving ideas of pleasures. While simultaneously, keeping my own evolution in check in regards to that of greater society at large; hence the utilitarian aspect of it.
This has opened my eyes to the beauty and wonder of the simplistic realities in life. I can enjoy the intricate nature of a leaf, or the artifices of nature. Simply put, there is nothing in this life that says I must “drive” myself to do anything that I don’t want to do. My very existence is optional, my choices in relation to society are optional. It is to my benefit that I chose certain choices over others. But those choices are optional and dependent upon my personal tastes and ideas of satisfaction.
jordan.mason wrote:
My essential existence, provides pleasure within the bounds of the social good.So, by combining a Kierkegaard existentialism, with a Mill Utilitarian ethical theory, I find meaning for myself, through the success and happiness of others and myself, in my my existence.
“The greatest good, for the greatest number[, as it relates to my subjective reality.]”…
Thank you for your insight, sir. I have to say that I agree with your position and find it honourable. While I can find it completely rational and well-balanced, I have attempted to live life for simple things and helping others. Still, I find myself wanting more to work towards: as was it not Kierkegaard who spoke in Fear and Trembling of finding a higher faith for oneself? While I’m not religious, I do want something to orient and have faith in: something to live towards, whereas with myself and society I tend to live around.
Though you are not religious, your language would suggest you are well educated. I would like to refer you to the writings of another very well educated man. He lived three thousand years ago, but like all true wisdom, his words still apply. King Solomon of Israel had this exact same question, and wrote down all his thoughts on the subject in a book of poetry called Ecclesiastes. King Solomon examines the worth of things like affluence, altruism, hard work, and the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom.
I won’t go into his conclusions here. Though Ecclesiastes is a very short book, it would make a very long post. I would highly recommend reading it for yourself, starting from the beginning. Even if you do not believe in the Judeo-Christian God of the Bible, Ecclesiastes is still a well regarded work of literature. I believe you will not only enjoy reading how similar your thought processes are to Solomon’s, but if you can get past the first eleven depressing chapters, you may find the answer to your original question. Good luck!
Thank you, everyone, for your responses and help. Helpful as you were, I’ve chosen another path: I’ve judged the world and found it not good enough to live in with focused reason, as I would truly like to. The chaos, ambiguity, greed, illusion, and transitory nature of the world weigh too heavily upon me to go forward into: I am quite seriously frightened to live within the world. Thus, I will create a small yet genuine peice of the world for myself in self-imposed isolation. While this is a cowardly retreat, I will be happy and at peace knowing their is nothing to be fixed in the world by myself. like Shaupenhauer or Gautama, I will perfect the art of being, rather than living. Thanks once again for the support.
I must ask one last question before you concede to this “self-imposed isolation.”
Are you “frightened to live within the world” or are you “frightened … [of] yourself?”
The people in this world are generally dim, and simply act like mirrors of ourselves. If we act in a kind manner, they usually reciprocate that within the bounds as it benefits them. If we act cold, like a mechanized machine, usually we receive an unwelcoming nuance of them back towards ourselves.
Lastly, you state “with focused reason” in describing a world of “chaos.” It was James Gleick that wrote the book, “Chaos,” which noted there was a mathematical logic to the chaotic weather patterns and in other aspects of science. From this, the world got “Fuzzy Logic.” Thus the progression into the ambiguities of science proceeded. Reasoning, alone, can vary from Aristotelian to Platonic, transcendental to dichotomous (e.g. black or white), to a variety of ways of “reasoning” or perceiving the world around you.
I think it may be good for you to subject yourself to a “self-imposed isolation,” as you will be forced to have an introspective experience. If anything, I think that you are really trying to run away from yourself, than you are away from the world around you.
jordan.mason wrote:
I think it may be good for you to subject yourself to a “self-imposed isolation,” as you will be forced to have an introspective experience. If anything, I think that you are really trying to run away from yourself, than you are away from the world around you.
You are right, in that I am running from the dionysian and passionate parts of myself. However, I believe that it would be better to live peaceably and well than in conflict with myself attempting to find both self and meaning. Indeed, as the want for something causes suffering in its lack; remove desire and one removes suffering from the world.
n0tacr00k wrote:
You are right, in that I am running from the dionysian and passionate parts of myself. However, I believe that it would be better to live peaceably and well than in conflict with myself attempting to find both self and meaning. Indeed, as the want for something causes suffering in its lack; remove desire and one removes suffering from the world.
You have horribly misrepresented the Stoics ideas of removing suffering. And if you are trying to look more towards Guatama (a/k/a Buddha) then you again have misconstrued the idea.
“than in conflict with myself attempting to find both self and meaning.”
The whole point of both philosophies was not so you could ignore the self, but to enrich your understanding of oneself by abstaining from other worldly things.
(http://www.tibetanincense.com/dharma.html)
Buddha still interacted with people after his period of seclusion. He was the one who said, “All life is suffering.” And I think that maybe true. But, in removing one’s self from suffering, he did NOT say remove oneself from life. The point of the Eightfold path was to find “self and meaning.” However, if you are trying to remove yourself from yourself, than you attempt something that is impossible while being alive in this world.
Lastly, by responding to my comment, you tacitly have conceded that you don’t truly want to “isolate” yourself completely from the world. If you were truly convicted in this belief, you would not have respond to my comments. However, as Thoreau has noted, that when something is true it resonates within you. By responding, you must have at a minimum considered my comment to have some truth to it, or it would have been easier to dismiss had it been a fabricated lie.
I think that you find yourself in a Catch-22. On one hand, there are portions of your psyche and life that you don’t like and want to change. On the other, you enjoy those parts of yourself and can’t contemplate changing them. So, you find yourself trying to dismiss both conclusions and escape from the reality altogether.
I wish you the best of luck in whichever endeavor you chose to partake in.
On a personal note, since I know that you will read this. I find you extremely intelligent, and I empathize with your suffering. It is a curse to be intelligent. J.S. Mill summarized the problems of it in his “Utilitarianism,” when retorting to the idea that his philosophy was “’swinish.’” Pigs are easily satisfied because it takes little to please them. However, an intelligent man is not so easily satisfied, and is likely to be more acutely prone to suffering more often.
I hope you find some repose of happiness. Everyone has the right to be happy.
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