Well, that’s the question, isn’t it? How do we know the guy down the street doing naked cartwheels in front of traffic, yelling that God says the martians are landing is insane, but the men who wrote the Bible were hearing God speak to them?
god’s smiles are so shiny, it makes you blind.
Only then shall you know.
well if its u just wanting to do something then obviously u will just act upon that want and if god is trying to tell u something then u will probably be faced with several obstacles while pursuing this want
jaredingram wrote:
well if its u just wanting to do something then obviously u will just act upon that want and if god is trying to tell u something then u will probably be faced with several obstacles while pursuing this want
Soo… anything difficult is god’s will, and anything easy is our own choice? Just clarifying.
well no, i see how my answer is pretty misleading, they may not be obstacles so much as signs either in favor or against it.
So… anything with signs supporting or discouraging it is God’s will, anything that’s neither supported or discouraged is your own choice?
i see what you’re saying jared
thanks, haha i kno what im trying to say but its jus not coming out right on here
Despite all appearances, I’m not trying to be difficult. I just want to make sure I interpret it the way you meant.
oh i know and thats completely fine, just forgive me in the sense that i cant seem to find the words to put it how i mean it
Lol, no worries, take your time. The post’s not going anywhere.
I believe you mean something like this:
If I decide to do something, then I am going to weigh the outcomes, making my choice on many different actions and their consequences, eventually coming to a conclusion.
If God is trying to tell me something, or direct me in a certain way or down a certain path, then I will obviously wiegh actions and consequences and outcomes etc. just as if I was making any other choice about anything else. However, there is a possibility God is charging me with a task which I am not sure about. I will be perfectly capable of performing this task, but I will have doubts in my mind about completing or even beginning this task. There is also a possibility that I would receive signs pointing me down this path. So, the easiest way to put it: no matter what I do, all signs would point to yes.
am I close?
well thanks for the insight :)
How does free will tie into this? I know a lot of times I’ve gone against all better judgment, and come out on top. Likewise, there have been times where I’ve done what every thing in my life pointed to as being the only option, and it was terrible. As well as shades of gray. Obviously, we can choose our own path, but what happens when our choice goes against god’s plan, and the outcome is better? And if god has a plan, and we don’t follow it by using our free will, what happens to the plan?
well this ties into whether or not u beleive that these plans are predetermined and cannot be changed, i personally beleive that nobody is bound to a certain path and that there will always be occasions when you go against your instincts and come out on top or the opposite.
Okay, but free will is a constant. What happens if you go against the plan god had for you, the choice he marked, simply by choice? Just because you didn’t want to choose the other option?
The Lord speaks to us in a still small voice and most often times we aren’t sure what that voice is saying and often we confuse it with our own wants and desires.
one way to know if it is God’s voice or not is to see if it glorifies Him.
One thing that I am learning is putting myself down… laying aside my own wants and desires along with my ego and yielding to the Holy Spirit.
God has to be placed first and above all… and this is how you can know if the direction is yours or His.
It is hard to lay down the desires of our own hearts and this is something that I have recently been learning and still am learning.
If you want to do something, pray about it… if it is God’s will then doors of opportunity will be open to you… but this takes waiting on the Lord… and trusting that sometimes you will be met with closed doors.
Just recently I was led to do something… and I wanted to go in another direction first because I could see the outcome of my plan quite clearly of how I suspected and wanted things to go. When I realized and heeded the still small voice and stepped out in faith and trusted the altered direction… I wasn’t steered wrongly! After I decided to do what was asked of me… I was met with success… although not in the way that I wanted… it was still positive and far better than the direction I wanted to take my business.
srnityblu wrote:
one way to know if it is God’s voice or not is to see if it glorifies Him.
Hm… so he only tells you to do things that make him look good? If you’re the one doing it, why would it reflect on him?
So do you think that God is to serve you? Do you think that God sits on His mighty throne and waits for your beck and call? Sorry doesn’t work that way… nor will it ever…
Either you serve God, yourself ( through free will) or you serve evil.
There is a bigger picture here friend and it’s bigger than you or I and it isn’t about us.
So what does Glorify Him mean? Well… would choosing to become a prostitute glorify God? Would becoming a drug addiction councilor glorify God? ( By helping others) Would choosing to lie and cheat the government glorify God?
One must understand God’s character in order to understand what Glorifies God and what doesn’t.
So if one is truly living for God, their lives would glorify God by reflecting the goodness of God… This is a deep question and the answer is even deeper… there are many levels and I’m trying to leave this in digestible bits.
If one is living in the realm of ” I want I have to have, I need( In the greedy sense), I will get it no matter what” that doesn’t glorify God does it? Does that thinking serve God and His goodness, no it only serves self.
No, I don’t think any god or goddess serves me. I never said anything of the sort.
No, I don’t think a giant invisible man on a throne is waiting on my beck and call. Who said I did?
I never said it worked that way. Although it’s odd that you presume to know what god will and won’t do after mocking the concept of an almighty being listening to anything we say.
Either I server god, or I serve evil? Way to speak in absolutes. There are shades of gray in most cases. Sorry to disappoint you, but I don’t serve either. I’m a good person without doing it because I’m told to, and doing so without any religion does not make me evil.
Yes, there is a bigger picture. And no, it’s not about us at all. Billions upon billions of galaxies, each holding hundreds of trillions of stars, and who knows how many planets? Just try to comprehend a trillion. It’s tough, isn’t it. It’s a hard number to wrap a human brain around. There’s only 7 billion people! No where near a trillion. But a trillion of anything, even something as large as planet Earth, is an insignificant speck of dust in the vast scope of the universe. And that’s just what we can see! All of it could vanish and the universe wouldn’t even notice. It would be like an ant dying in the rain forest. Everything we see in the night sky, gone… and the universe would still be infinite. Imagine… all of that, and so many think it’s all about us. That all of it is there… just for us. For us to look at, no less. Just at night, when we’re about to go to sleep, so we can look up and say, “Oh, that’s pretty. Goodnight.” How arrogant can one species be?
No, being a prostitute would only glorify your pimp.
Being a drug addiction councilor would not glorify anyone. It’s helping and bettering a human life and getting paid for it. Who knows, the counselor may be an Atheist, or a Pagan, or a Hindu. Not everything is about one religion or evil.
Choosing to lie and cheat the government might suit your needs at the time. America did it. That’s why it exists. But it’s hardly a matter of glory.
How exactly does one understand the character of someone or something invisible, that we cannot interact with? because I’ve read the Bible several times, and I’m not so sure this god character is very nice. In fact, for a large chunk of it, he’s a downright jerk. Flooding people out of their homes, killing babies, ordering people to rip the unborn from their mothers… it’s not something you can really look past, you understand.
If one is living for Zeus, their lives would glorify Zeus by reflecting the goodness of Zeus. Or maybe, they’re just being a good person.
Thank you for leaving it in digestible bits. These things tend to turn into long-winded essays, requiring dissections that make the responding to them take hours, and the reading very tiresome.
Well, “I want, I have to have, I need,” food/water/shelter/clothing/etc. Thus, “I want, I have to have, I need,” money. Thus, “I want, I have to have, I need,” a job. Also, if someone keeps that job, and does well enough at it, why shouldn’t they have the money they earned? They should have it. And if they want a three-foot widescreen flat, plasma TV with surround sound, they should be able to buy it, no? Now, does that glorify god, or is it evil? Or… maybe it’s in between. One of those shades of gray that seemingly don’t exist.
Beyond that, if god doesn’t serve man, and man isn’t allowed to serve himself, as you’re implying… then how are we supposed to survive? Man has to serve himself, even if the life he preserves by doing so is only used to glorify his god, he must preserve it to do so, and to preserve it, he must serve himself.
what if you helped others, did good for the sake of good, and put “preserving” yourself aside? What if you served other people first and foremost (before yourself)? What if you bought/had only that which you really need to survive?
What if, instead of buying a three-foot, widescreen, flat, plasma TV with surround sound you instead gave that money to a charitable organization which is helping other people? Even though you really want it?
Does this mean you are glorifying God? Does it just mean you’re a good person?
If you always do things for your own personal gain first, does that make you an evil-doer, a bad person, or just a selfish person?
There are always answers to support any viewpoint. Free will is there so we may choose which viewpoint we want to hold. We can even make up our own viewpoint if we find other’s unacceptable.
My original question asks how I am supposed to distinguish between a situation which is something that I want to do (let’s call this selfish) and something that I am meant to do (let’s call it fate, destiny, God’s will, etc.)? If you do not believe in God then you have a very limited scope from which to view this question in the first place and therefore will have a limited answer. Only those who believe in God would be able to answer this question with some sort of insight as they are the ones who are or have been faced with this question themselves. If you don’t believe in God how informative can you be on the topic of His contacting or telling us things (whatever they may be)?
And just to be clear on my original question, let’s say a person wants to know if they should give to a local charity. So, they ask God for guidance: should they or should they not give to this particular charity? How can they be certain God is telling them it’s ok or good to give to this charity versus their own need or want to give to this charity? Obviously you would think, “gee, it’s a charity. Of course it’s good to give them money. They most likely really need it.” However, you cannot forget about so-called charities in the past that have really existed to serve the needs of the people who started the charity; which in fact was a selfish, and most definately illegal action. This scenario is simply a hypothetical situation to better describe my question.
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1. Then you would be a very kind hobo.
2. Then the charitable organization would take 50% to cover their expenses, and split the rest so they could buy rice of thousands of starving people who are only starving because they refuse to move somewhere with fertile soil. Truth be told, it’s doing more good to buy something expensive, as it keeps more people employed in a slowly recovering economy. Or, if you want to be really practical, you could do what I’d do, and give a thousand dollars to a homeless person in the form of a year-long lease agreement on an apartment. That way, you’re not just keeping a handful of people alive to continue suffering, you’re giving one person a good, solid start to get back on their feet. If you have the money, wouldn’t it be better?
3. Why does it make you selfish if you look out for yourself first, as well as helping others? I’ve felt the consequences of putting others before myself, and I’m not better off because of it.
4. On the contrary. I have a larger scope than most. I’ve read the Bible four times, I’ve read most holy books, several others more than once. I’ve studied religions for years, searching for one that was right for me. I know what I’m talking about, I simply don’t believe or disbelieve it. Most haven’t even read their own holy books.
5. If you believe in god, why not pray and ask? If the answer isn’t clear, maybe god doesn’t want you to know? Maybe he wanted you to come here and get involved in this discussion. You never know, do you?
Which, by the way, is the answer I’ve been getting at all along.
You never know.
Concerning freewill:
In my religion, it is said that we, as human beings, do have freewill but it is limited. To explain further, I want you to consider the following scenario:
A man once asked a scholar regarding the extent of our freewill. The scholar replied by asking the man to lift his right leg and to keep it lifted. He then asked the man to lift his left leg. Obviously, the man said that he wouldn’t be able to do so with his right leg already suspended in the air. The scholar then explained that our freewill is comparable to the limited manner in which we can move our body. Our body is subject to external forces (ie gravity et al); in the same manner our freewill is subject to that which has already been predetermined (ie the time of our birth/death, our race, ethnicity, family, etc).
I believe that although we have freewill to make the decisions that we do, God is already aware of the decision that we will eventually make. Obviously, whenever we have to make a decision we are presented with several options. My understanding is that although we can choose any of these options, it is still known to God which of the options we will choose. This is not because God planned that we make this decision but rather because he is not bound by time. So the theory goes: God knows the decisions we are going to make because he is not bound by time (meaning that he can see the past, present and future at the same time … since time in itself is a creation which cannot bind the Creator) not because he intended that we pursue such a decision (therefore, the decision can be right or wrong and is worthy of being judged and in turn is rewardable or punishable).
Concerning the original question:
I’m not really sure how we should know when God is speaking to us rather than our own thoughts but I’ve always held that whenever an answer to my problem(s) arises it is because of God rather than myself (especially when that answer seems as though it will bring me closer to Him –> ‘it is He who created us and unto Him we must return’). Lastly, just another saying by a scholar (I’m not sure if this is the exact quote but it’s something along the lines of …):
‘Recognize the existence of God, when what you have planned is altered due to that which is unforeseeable.’
Hope this post is somewhat helpful! =]
srnityblu wrote:
Do you think that God sits on His mighty throne and waits for your beck and call?
I’m guessing the mighty throne part was metaphorically speaking but I thought this is a good quote worth mentioning!
“Whoever said in what is He(God), held that He is limited; and whoever said on what is He held He is not on something else. He is a Being but not through phenomenon of coming into being. He exists but not from non-existence. He is with everything but not in physical closeness. He is detached from everything but not in physical separation. He acts but without connotation of movements and apparatus. He sees even when there is none to be looked at from among His creation. He is only One, such that there is none with whom He may keep company or whom He may miss in its absence.” (By the second scholar mentioned in my first post on this thread)
“Trillions and trillions of prayers every day asking and begging and pleading for favors. ‘Do this’ ‘Gimme that’ ‘I want a new car’ ‘I want a better job’. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday. His day off. And I say fine, pray for anything you want. Pray for anything. But…what about the divine plan? Remember that? The divine plan. Long time ago god made a divine plan. Gave it a lot of thought. Decided it was a good plan. Put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years the divine plan has been doing just fine. Now you come along and pray for something. Well, suppose the thing you want isn’t in god’s divine plan. What do you want him to do? Change his plan? Just for you? Doesn’t it seem a little arrogant? It’s a divine plan. What’s the use of being god if every run-down schmuck with a two dollar prayer book can come along and f***** up your plan? And here’s something else, another problem you might have; suppose your prayers aren’t answered. What do you say? ‘Well it’s god’s will. Thy will be done.’ Fine, but if it’s god’s will and he’s going to do whatever he wants to anyway; why the f***** bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me. Couldn’t you just skip the praying part and get right to his will? It’s all very confusing.”
-George Carlin, from his show, “You Are All Diseased”.
Is the above post a reflection of your thoughts or sarcastic humour? :S
It’s another opinion. I’m curious to see what reaction others have to it.
Hmm… I think you have actually helped more than you think, xeno.
Xeno Dragon wrote:
You never know.
The dilemma we face now is not about the answer to my question, but rather how we will go about using the information given to us. It seems clear to me noe that I may not ever know if God is trying to tell me something, push me in one direction, or call me to do something particular. Yet at the same time I guess he is. He has given us a direction already (the Bible). All I have to do is follow this direction. In every circumstance I cannot be worried about whether God is trying to say something by it, but rather just do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do, because, if for no other reason, I never know. So, I might as well just do my best to be the person who I should be (respectful, honest, hardworking, etc.)
Thanks Xeno!
oh, hey. Here’s a quote for you:
If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name in a Swiss bank.
- Woody Allen
No problem. Happy to help.
Xeno Dragon wrote:
4. On the contrary. I have a larger scope than most. I’ve read the Bible four times, I’ve read most holy books, several others more than once. I’ve studied religions for years, searching for one that was right for me. I know what I’m talking about, I simply don’t believe or disbelieve it. Most haven’t even read their own holy books.
If you don’t mind me asking, which holy books/religions have you read/studied? (Just curious =])
Oh, jeez. I’ll have to find a list.
Holy Books: Six types of Bible, (KJV, NKJV, NIV, NASV, RSV, NSRV), (also Anton LaVey’s Satanic Bible), the Tanakh, the Qur’an, Bardo Thodol (or “The Great Liberation upon Hearing in the Intermediate State” In other words, the Tibetan Book of the Dead.), The Vedas, The Book of Shadows, Confucian Canon, both books of the Jaina Sutras, Mahanirvana Tantra (that was a fun one), Shri Guru Granth Sahib, The Kojiki and the translated portions of The Nihongi, and The I Ching.
As well as articles and websites relating to these, and others which don’t have a text, or other scripture. I can’t really list all of the specific religions I’ve looked into or participated in, because there are thousands. There are something ridiculous like 30,000 sects of Christianity alone. If you want to know about any faith or sect in particular, feel free to ask. I’m just really too lazy to list them right now.
What exactly do you do, if you don’t mind me asking? You either work in such a field or have a LOT of time on your hands… it seems.
Yeah, it’s the time one. That, and most of this reading went on over my last eight years in school before college.
Oh. And when I’m not working on graphic design or web design, or volunteering, I’m a writer.
it sounds like you are looking for the truth xeno dragon
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