This reply has been removed.
Attend a local Church. They probably have some local things you can help out with. Helping others does wonders for your soul.
As for visions … you cant just make them happen. Let it come too you. Perhaps join a meditation group at the church.
just be a nice person and dont f people over or be a selfish judger. surely, he will find this to be very nice indeed seeing as mostly everyone is an a hole
Start by using a question mark when asking a question. God loves people who use proper grammar.
So amazing how little reverance we give such an Awesome God. Am guilty of the same which is why it’s time to give respect due to Him for everything we have - life itself included!!
If you have an idea of someone who has this kind of respect or of you are one of these people and would like to give me some insight please help me!!
I don’t believe God cares about my grammar - I do believe it’s hearing from me that’s more important to Him!!
How little reverence? LITTLE? Let’s see…
Billboards, pamphlets, Churches on every corner, the requirement to praise him verbally every morning for all the years we’re in school whether we believe in him or not, the praises to him sung in your national anthem and printed on every piece of our money, at least four national television stations, and at least three radio stations in every town dedicated to him, not to mention all of the commercials, Bibles in every hotel nightstand, people coming to everyone’s front door every weekend, people trying to convert others on the street, movies and books and television shows dedicated to spreading the idea of and glorifying him, political decisions in abortion, gay rights, public school science curriculum, and even the way people vote, let alone all of the other decisions impacted by Christianity, public holidays based in one religion, parades and celebrations specifically based on one religion, hell, even our calendar and year numbers are based on BC and AD; Before Christ and Ano Domini (the year of the Lord), there are skywriters and planes carrying banners with advertisements for the Christian God, the Bible is the best-selling printed work of all time, crosses and other Christian symbols are everywhere! Need I go on? The Christian word is everywhere, whether you want to hear it or not, it’s impossible to get away from. There are pop-ups and banner ads and spam emails and posts like this, and chain letters, and cell phone ads, and god knows what else. See? It’s even in our language. “Hell if I know.” “God forbid I should do something like that.” “Jesus Christ!” “Oh my God!” Christianity is the largest religion on the planet, there are over 1,000,000,000 Catholics alone, and Vatican City is one of the wealthiest countries, even though it is the smallest. Every speech, every national address, nearly every social function praises god at some point. “God bless America” is a perfect example. Beyone that, look at all the songs out there. An entire genre of music, Christian Rock, has been created for the specific purpose of spreading the religion and praising god. Of course, the line blurs with Country, somewhat. There are crosses along every highway, bumper stickers and those little Jesus fish on every other car, and people who bring up god or Jesus every chance they get, in everyday conversation.
You can’t look around this world, specifically this country, and say that there is any shortage of reverence given to your god. It’s simply untrue. I could go on, but I’m sure you get the point.
Yeah I get your point I do thank you for all the details.
I also see that you may be saying even if the Lord was trying to get in touch with you you wouldn’t know just cos he’s so evidently all over the place whats the difference!!
I can also say that if we truly were giving reverance to God then we’d have His ways pat down to the T! - YOU WILL NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD YOUR GOD IN VAIN - “Hell if I know.” “God forbid I should do something like that.” “Jesus Christ!” “Oh my God!”
We may know a Hell of a whole lot about God - but if we really knew who He was - we’d have more respect for Him!!
The sad thing is that there were days in American History when they said God Bless America and they meant it - Now we just don’t even remember the importance of our freedom!!
Here’s an honest question. Okay, two, actually. You say we should have his ways down to a T. Why do you believe that “his ways” are the right ways?
Also… you say we don’t remember the importance of our freedom when referencing the USA. If I recall correctly, this country was founded on the freedom of and from religion. You can believe however you want, and no law will be made supporting of oppressing any religion. Clearly, we don’t remember that, as most of the laws in this country are based in religion. Namely, the Christian religion. Imagine how it feels to everyone who isn’t of your religion. Better yet, imagine all these laws that support and further Christianity were instead supporting and furthering Islam, or Paganism. Imagine you were living in this country and you weren’t the majority.
Empathy is a virtue even the Bible tells you to have. So try it. Put yourself in the shoes of all those that Christianity walks on in this country. Imaging being pressured everywhere you go to convert to a religion you don’t believe in, as though it were the only option. Being treated like a sinner and an evil person simply because you don’t agree with THEIR GOD.
Where are your freedoms then? Now, realize that that is how everyone else lives; in the oppressive, belittling shadow of “the one true God” who seemingly has no problem with his followers treating others that way. In fact, it almost seems encouraged.
Ok my friend let’s do this…………….
I am sorry for those Christians that you have probably come across that put the gun to your head and you are right it’s no fun living in a country where your religion is not the practicing way of the general public - I would know I grew up in the middle east!!
In saying that - I will give my God Glory for reaching me in a place where Islam flourished! Maybe that’s one of the best ways I can tell you - HIs ways are the right ways.
Most of the laws in the US were created around a religious belief because the leaders that created these depended and had great faith the God really was with them - that He truly was leading them because they literally opened their meetings with prayer that would last more then an hour - not significant?
They prayed for the people they would lead - out loud, to God.
Today we are trying to get God out of everything - He’s not politically correct anymore!!
Let me ask you a question - why do we put so much emphasis on “do not steal” and so little on “never take the name of the Lord your God in Vain!!”
I can answer that - because stealing affects our world. If someone steals from us - they are taking our possessions. It’s all about us - it’s not about God anymore as much as you may think it looks like the “Christians” have it all and want more - I am here to tell you all I want to find a way to give my Father - God Glory.
I would need to sit down with you someday and explain all the things He has done in my own life for you to understand the Love and not the Religion that I choose to focus on.
So… simply because you had a specific religion in a place where it was not the popular opinion that makes it right? How so?
Bill of Rights
Amendment I
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”
It’s against the very same values this country was founded on.
So if they had been praying to the Pagan gods, you would accept them as the true gods? Simply because they prayed out loud to them?
No one’s trying to remove god from anything they want their freedom from him. This is NOT a Theocracy, and we are NOT all forced to believe in or follow the same god. Thus, being forced to follow laws that only have a basis in one specific religion is something even you have to agree is wrong. Even if you don’t, then like I said, it’s still unconstitutional. Imagine if there were laws that said all women have to wear a burka, all children have to meditate on the Buddha fifteen minutes a day before school every morning, or that all men must be circumcised? Would you agree then?
Well, freedom of speech, for starters. Same Amendment. We put emphasis on not stealing because everyone agrees that they don’t want to be stolen from. Also, that can be prosecuted, proven, and punished. If anything, that proves that we don’t need Biblical values in this day and age, we need practical ones that prevent actually damaging behavior. Or the moment we make it illegal to say “f**k God” we might as well make it illegal to step on a crack in the sidewalk and require every person to clap three times before crossing the street, because to those who aren’t Christians, it’s just as ridiculous a superstition.
No. You telling me little anecdotes about how you believe an invisible being did something for you is not going to work. You can believe however you want, but you’re not going to convert me like that. I’m agnostic, I need proof. Same goes for Atheists, if they want me to believe there’s no god, they need to prove it. Either way, I’ve tried more religions, many of them Christian in root, and I felt nothing. None of that cosmic love no power higher than humans, nothing. They’re all the same, they’re humans telling other humans what to believe based on humans interpreting books written by past humans. Until I see any proof to the contrary, that’s what the evidence says.
Sometimes we need to jump to prove to God that our heart is where it should be so that He can catch us.
We need to humble ourselves as the clay to the potter for you were created my friend, you did not create and God the creator certainly does not have to prove anything to you…and neither do I!
I did not start this conversation to convert anyone but it looks like you needed to get some stuff off your chest!!
Lets let it lie!!
TC
I could say the same things you have about any religion. That doesn’t make them true. Look at Paganism, the world’s oldest religion. Put it in the place of god, and all your quotes and rhetoric you just used will became as laughable to you as they are to everyone else.
I will not jump until I know where I will land. To do so is simply stupid. Believing that something or someone you have never seen or heard will magically catch you is fine, but I don’t believe that, and I’m not risking anything over it to find out.
The potter and the clay. Well, as the Bible has been proven false and proven to be plagiarized in many places, besides the fact that it was written by man and changed to suit the will of multiple rulers over the centuries, I would say that yes, the current incarnation of the Christian God is created by man, making him the pot and us the potters. I know there may or may not be a god out there, but do a bit of research into Biblical history and you’ll see it’s certainly not the one you hear about in church.
No one needs to prove anything to me. That’s true. But it’s not that you don’t need to, it’s that you can’t, and you know that you can’t. So what better way to cover it up than by putting yourself on the same pedestal that you put your god, and saying that neither of you need to prove anything? Careful, last time someone tried to compare themselves with god, he threw a nasty little tantrum.
And no, I’m not getting anything off my chest. I’ve done this a million times before. It’s a subject I enjoy discussing. No two debates are ever the same. Sadly, far too many people run away when they realize they’re speaking with someone who knows more about their religion than they do.
What you know about my religion is only what you have read or studied on your search, my religion is based on what I have felt!!
I am not comparing myself to God in anyway.To me God is turning out to be Love and I will defend Him in my life as that. He put me here to love and be one with His creation. As far away as we have come from this theory in my heart I do believe that this is what my “religion” is about.
I have met alot of people like you that enjoy this subject i do too but more because I can defend it!
And I don’t care anymore about what this world percieves as love
We have come so far away from our innermost self that it’s hard to comprehend what love is anymore. Our conditioning, our experiences good or bad, reflected off others perception of us and our own perceptions from others of who God is has almost erased any traces of Pure Love.
We cannot go by what we read and study alone we need to have hope, the kind that is almost like a child asking for help - without hope I’m sorry but I’d sound like you!
I do not go to Church I’m afraid - Not a very good example.
I do however watch and listen to a few programs and preachers that I believe I am very privileged to have as somewhat of an education for my journey.
I still have baggage and I still have my own addictions that I have held on to from my own conditioning but learning how to give them up and walking through it all with Him makes all the difference. It makes me want to know more.
We do live in an age where we need lots n lots of proof especially when it comes to this basic concept of love and relationship. We’ve been hurt too many times to think positive.
Until we find a way to just let go and give it all to that Being who really can make it right I don’t think we will have the peace or the answers we are looking for.
Then your religion is actually your personal spiritual belief. A religion is what it is, it’s not open to interpretation.
What arrogance to think that god would need you to defend him. Interesting.
So you were put here to love, but you don’t care what love is? You’re confusing.
Okay. so what it YOUR definition of love? Sorry. “Pure Love.” With capitals.
“We cannot go by what we read and study alone we need to have hope, the kind that is almost like a child asking for help - without hope I’m sorry but I’d sound like you!”
K. And how did you figure that out, by reading or studying? Or do you simply ‘hope’ it’s true?
Oh, I think positively, but only when it’s logical. To do otherwise it to lie to yourself.
Until we know the answers we are looking for, we’ll never be able to know if we’re asking the right individual, or if there is one at all. How do you know there’s a “Being who really can make it right”? How do you know he/she/it WANTS to make anything right? If they haven’t fixed anything that’s wrong so far, then what makes you think they care about us at all, even if they do exist?
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
-Epicurius (341-270 BC)
What arrogance to think that god would need you to defend him. Interesting?
He doesn’t need me to defend Him but unfortunately there are too many of us that haven’t taken the time out to really try and know or understand Him as more then this GOD position we have given Him.
He/she/it is more personal then what we have made the relationship up to be!
We have a warped sense of what love is and we as humans are still struggling to find so many answers and don’t realise that Love is the root cause but I refuse to believe that our love comes even close to the magic of God’s.
Yes I said it the magic of God’s love - I am still a child in my Spirit and that’s the only word I can think of to match Human terms with a sense of Wonder!!
I am not confused, just learning! If you don’t understand what I am saying then that’s you like you said - my religion is actually my personal spiritual belief.
My personnel opinion of God, my thought that we don’t give Him enuf - just like if my brother or sister wasn’t giving my mom the respect she deserved as a mother.
Xeno I am currently reading a book that has knocked my socks off and more then that your last para there - I could answer it but that would be my way of explaining it - I can’t - it’s too beautiful to explain although it’s painful to understand!!
Maybe someday I will be able to but if u got time on your hands - The Shack - William P. Young Fictional!!
Seems like the author too was wise enuf to see how much unbelief we carry that he had to write a fictional story to try and get his point across!!
waterbaby_f wrote:
I could answer it but that would be my way of explaining it - I can’t -
Try.
No - Read!!
Let Him reach you and feel Him for yourself - alls I can say is - if you are sitting on the fence ask in faith, I have!!
Fence? I’m not sitting on any fence. Theists are on one side of the fence, Atheists are on the other. They’re arguing over the fence. I see no fence. Show me evidence that there’s a fence to argue over in the first place, and I might get involved.
Besides, I’ve tried faith. It doesn’t work for me. I’ve tried every major branch of Christianity and several smaller branches. I’ve tried most other religions and few cults. Nothing has felt any less ridiculous than any of the others.
Anyway, I really don’t read when I’m writing, and I’m in the middle of planning my next chapter. Summarize it, or I’m not going to know what point you’re getting at.
Ok well then if there is no fence why am I explaining this to you?
You should just be waiting for a knock at your door instead!
That’s the only kind of proof that we seem to think will be appropriate!
But even that is our own way of saying - “I am not yet ready to surrender everything that I am and everything that I do for some God!
I work hard for my life and inspite of that bad things happen. I try not to hurt people and try to love them but still bad things happen.”
I don’t think it’s ever going to change while this world still exists…
a time when bad things will cease.
I believe that the way our lives work out is the way we allow them to but sometimes God voluntarily takes the wheel and sometimes He wants us to give Him the privelage of driving.
The first is a result of Grace and Mercy - yes the Bible may be a tampered with - piece of evidence but have hope when you read of the story of the prodigal son that the grace and Mercy of his father welcomed the wayward son home with Arms wide open.
I think the boy expected the opposite and I think we limit God to being that opposite in our lives.
We think that He is there with His stern command to whip us into “shape” spiritually but often times we feel like the ways He chooses is so much to bear we often end up resenting Him.
We blame Him when the bad things happen just because we need someone to blame but He says:
Love is not forceful and God will not force His love upon you. Loving God is a choice we must make and making that choice means putting Him in the drivers seat for more then just the afternoon!
He has given us the freedom to choose between good and bad our basic nature allows us this freedom because we have a conscience.
If we make mistakes (which I am sure we would need to before we get it right completely) there are consequences to our actions. We don’t live here alone we live with other people so sometimes our mistakes will have an affect on the people around us.Sometimes things happen to me as a result of people around me or bad things happen to people that I love and that in turn affects me too!
That’s why He encourages all of us. He’s not just with me He’s with each and everyone of us - hoping we’ll choose the good if we are away from Him and hoping that we will rest in His love no matter what the situation - if we are close to Him.
God is the Good! That’s just His nature but we limit Him to this big strict being waiting to hurt us.
Sin is no longer an issue in this world - it’s all relative!!
But may I ask - when we sin (meaning choosing the bad over the good) we tend to seem to push the limits to see what the consequences will be - maybe on some level expecting like in days of old that someone or something will appear to me and tell me things are wrong and that will be the beginning of my life or walk with the Lord. Sometimes we think He won’t love us anymore and we have all built up these walls - the reasons as to why I can’t trust this God.
But the problem we don’t realize if we listen to the words - I will never leave you nor forsake you…………
What does that mean? It means He is there even in your sin with you ready to help you out. We build up the wall He came to tear it down. We just can’t believe it can be as simple as it is and what it is is a relationship.
One that I feel very very special for experiencing even now as I write this to you - I didn’t know how the words would come out but with the help of my faith and that faith is in God - I think I have explained this to you as best as I can.
I hope it helps.
I don’t simply wait, I search. Discussion is one way to further my understanding. So far, I haven’t found anyone who can logically rebuke my position.
“Love is not forceful and God will not force his love upon you,”
That doesn’t really make sense, seeing as if you don’t accept his love, he’ll throw you in Hell. “Do what I tell you, or I’ll blow your brains across the wall! I’m not gonna force you, though.” It’s about the same logic.
Actually, Eve gave us the choice between good and bad. God didn’t want us to even have the option of choosing bad.
Not only that, but “bad” is only his view of what ‘bad’ is, and even that changes from one page to the next in the Bible. Examples:
God is satisfied with his works Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works. Gen 6:6
God is seen and heard Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/ Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
There is but one God Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7
So it’s all very confusing. If you like, I can post the whole list of contradictions I’ve found.
God is good!
Okay, explain these.
Robbery commanded Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Lying approved and sanctioned Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Killing commanded Ex 32:27
Slavery and oppression ordained Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
Judging of others approved 1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12
Christ taught and practiced physical resistance Luke 22:36/ John 2:15
Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in the same John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5
Adultery allowed Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3
I can go on, if you like?
Sorry, it’s very clear that you believe what you believe, and it makes you happy… but then, I could believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and it could make me happy as a clam. But it wouldn’t be real. That’s what I need. Not just happy conjecture about what this figure is and can do, but some sort of evidence that he’s even real. And if god(s) is(are) real, which of those known to humans, if any, are the right one? There are many, many gods. How do you know which one is real, or if any of them are? I’ve been through most of the religions out there, and I never ‘felt’ anything special. I really tried to believe, but nothing ever made sense. Every religion felt exactly the same; empty, and pointless.
Well I am happy I got to prove a point even if pointless to you - that I am happy with what I believe in and sure the Flying Spaghetti Monster may suit your view of happiness. Life I think has His way of calling you back to the center of your own being. God Is. and what is written in the bible although past is a record of history as it unfolded to the people of it’s time.
See even we as human beings are so longing for visible proof that we break it all down and instead of searching with a pure heart longing for proof of a Good God. (otherwise why would we search and need proof at all?) We tend to use life and our shortcomings to commit to the ideas that the world has assumed Him to be.
Fine go ahead and break it down and search for your truth I am sure if we try and stay on the side of the pure heart instead of that trying to prove it all wrong we may begin to find the answers in the examples and HIStory or what ever we receieve from our own development in our relationship to Him.
It may be the teeniest tinyest piece of hope for Good God that may eventually lead us to our answers.
He’s real or he’s not. There must be evidence of either side if one is true. Where is it?
I’ve tried all of the believing and hoping and praying, and it didn’t do anything for my view of things. I tried to “accept God into my heart”. I guess he didn’t like that plan. I tried to stay on the side of his pure heart. I guess that wasn’t good enough. Finally, I looked for the answers in history. What I found wasn’t in his favor.
Either god doesn’t want me to have a relationship with him, or he’s not there. Neither seems like a good option to me.
Not neither of them seem appealing to me either and alls I can say I am sure He knows you are looking and sometimes He works in ways we don’t understand.
Keep looking it won’t ever not be worth it.
No one fully understands what it means to be human not why we are here nor what we are here for and if we haven’t tried already I think it’s worth a shot just living like we were put here to enter and enjoy a relationship with God. Maybe if we just start living it - I can’t hear You Lord but someone told me you are out there!!
Child like faith is most precious in His eyes - what else would make a father truly happy than to have his children know Him and His strength. He saying - there is no weakness in me so I can take all of you all of your burden and all of your pain - that’s how strong I am.
Basically you might want to try making God everything that you have ever been told your father should have been to you, everything Good you should have had in a relationship with your earthly father.
Again with a pure heart - and please don’t think any of this is not worth it even if you do just convince yourself that you are in search of the good truth. I know He will reveal what He needs to to you my friend - wait upon Him and wait for His perfect time.
Take Care.
waterbaby_f wrote:
No one fully understands what it means to be human not why we are here nor what we are here for and if we haven’t tried already I think it’s worth a shot just living like we were put here to enter and enjoy a relationship with God.
Why make THAT choice? You said yourself that no one knows anything about any of this. You don’t know if he’s real, or if he’s fake. You don’t know if he’s good or just playing us all for fools. You don’t know that he’s not just some fabrication by humans, and the real god is nothing like the one you think you’re trying to get to know. There may be no god at all. There may be many. There may be thousands.
So out of all the choices out there, why choose to live your life for THIS god in THIS way?
Moreover, why should I? Odds are, if I’m searching for the truth, then devoting my life to one god is just a waste of time. It’s like you’re trying to pick a single specific card out of an impossibly huge deck, full of thousands of cards, with no two the same, and instead of examining each closely, you’re hoping that the one you’ve randomly selected is the Ace of Clubs with a coffee stain and an upside-down “A” that was printed on the Spring Equinox in the 30s and has a thumb print of Andre the Giant.
What are the odds? Why put all my eggs in the basket of this particular religion?
waterbaby_f wrote:
Child like faith is most precious in His eyes - what else would make a father truly happy than to have his children know Him and His strength.
What if the father they were believing in was a woman, dressed as a man? They wouldn’t know. What if they believed he was strong, but he was a coward, and totally worthless? What if they believed he was a good man, but he was a hit man for the Mafia? What if they believed any of the things you listed, but he didn’t exist at all?
Or the worst option. Imagine you were evil. Say… Adolf Hitler. Wouldn’t you want your citizens to have childlike faith in you? It would make manipulating them that much easier. How do we KNOW this isn’t the case?
waterbaby_f wrote:
I know He will reveal what He needs to to you my friend - wait upon Him and wait for His perfect time.
I’ve been waiting for thirteen years. More, really, but I was too young to understand that adults could be wrong. I didn’t know there were other opinions out there.
but I was too young to understand that adults could be wrong….
Tell me if the world meaning it’s people on the whole have done justice here on earth.
We are the makers of wars we are the cause of HIV, our lusts kill our own! so tell me if the adults we have now have led us in any good way!! They are wrong and now that you are an adult you decide.
This is my decision, you asked me why I choose this choice over any of the other….now more then anything I believe that there was a reason my family was converted to Christianity only 2 generations before me - we used to be Hindu apparently.
But we only found that out after we were already introduced on a closer level of relationship to God and Christ and His Way.
It was too late to even think about it - this belief we had come to know and depend on had already proved itself to us, God already won us!! So now there is only room for thankfulness that He found us!
And I know too that my father who followed the examples set forth from his father were no where close to where we are right now.
I have grown up with a bit to complain about. I think i could have wanted to believe that I’m here alone and that there is just too much pain here for me!!
I have an alcoholic Father he had the same! We had happy times but not with him we had alot of sad times as a result of his lack for truth in his own life. I was abused sexually as a child several times! and well let’s just say it’s been difficult!
But today I can sit here and tell you that Although there would certainly have been some other way this life was supposed to be spent……..I believe that my Father is heaven is here and I would have had no reason to find Him if I didn’t have such a hard time. And no God doesn’t hurt us so we will come to Him - I used to think that but the tears I have cried and pain I have felt I believe are steps to falling in love with the most wonderful comforter!
I needed a Father when I was growing up but I am an adult now and I still need one!
I don’t see any good examples around me that have loved me as much as God Xeno!
That’s why this is my choice!!
I’ve seen examples of love for me greater than anything I’ve seen from any deity. Of course, I’ve never seen any example of any sort of godly love for me, so showing greater care for my well-being isn’t too difficult to pull off.
You’re right. I’m the adult, so I decide, but that wasn’t even remotely the point of what I said there. Adults are the cause of many evils in the world, but according to the Bible, God caused evil to exist in the first place, so he must therefore like it.
And that’s great that it’s your choice, but that doesn’t tell me why it should be my choice. I see no reason to value it any more than any other religion.
The word on ’street’ is and as corny as it sounds - God is Love. So any form of love that you feel and have felt is God working through those around you and in you. That’s according to what I believe.
From my journey something seems to point the way to a theory that this world was Jesus’ idea and His original plan was to create beings to share with Him and Heavenly bodies what they already were enjoying.
So if this is true then that means that we really were meant to have good and that was the intention. Imagine a mother and father planning to have a child.Out of love for each other and want to grow this love into a family. This is the purpose of marriage. To love! The purpose of parent hood. To love. The purpose of having friends and family regardless of their issues or yours is to live in a fellowship of love.
Love is a choice. We choose who we love and more often then not we look for love and respond to it in what ever form it presents itself to us.
The smile of a child. In giving freely to those that need it. In adoption, in a second marriage, in forgiveness most obviously.
Love is all around us we just don’t realize it and just cos something wonderful is not visibly happening to us does not mean it isn’t here. God is. Not was. He is and Love is and it is the longing to give your love or some sort of worthiness to a being that supposedly exists out there but won’t show you His face.
Sounds like He’s been slapping you with love and you don’t know it!
Be thankful for the source from where ever love came from to you.
I was told today that we should try and imagine coming home. When we call out - hello is anyone home? Anyone? The people you live with. The people you have a relationship with. Is anyone home?
Now call out in the darkness of your heart. from the place that is longing for truth. For truth to be proud to be a part of and according to my Choice, All souls are His. So we are all His souls. We belong to the great Being. Let’s nevermind what we call it. Nevermind Christianity or Hinduism or Islam or any of the other names given to this subject.
If I may call it like I see it. Everyone is in search of something they can belong to and that will give them comfort in this life to know, to have a sure sense of what’s to come and how to handle it. Religion is out attempt to make people see things from our point of view. We grow it when we invite and we adopt.
Some are formed out of love alot of them out of respect and most of them out of good intention.
But when the rules of religion are set in place we leave no room for what if’s. Not what is we are all wrong.
What if someone falls short. What if we can’t live up to these expectations. Why are there expectations?
They were put there by man. Who didn’t want to screw up the plan. Who wanted all these people to follow the same way and prove their own theories of good intention. Always be good and don’t mess up is what every religion tells us. Consequences for our actions are more prominent then the good intention behind the action.
Love.
So that’s mans way of attempting to handle this subject.
I believe that God puts no expectation on me. I am freed by this thought. He made me, wrote my book and knows every step I have made will make or my dreams of the steps I’d like to make.
I will never leave you nor forsake you, famous Christian quote from the bible.
Do you know the power of that if it is true.
He’s here,He knows. He knows how many more religions it may take you to find Him if you choose to continue to look for it as a proof instead of a relationship.
“God caused evil to exist in the first place, so he must therefore like it.”
According to the bible Eve was tempted and she gave in.
He told them not to eat from the tree. He knew that the snake would be by to see if he could woe them and put a tare in their relationship with God.
He gives us a choice and our pride and ego and even curiosity should not over shadow love. If we love Him back and when we love Him as we should (which may take a second sometimes more)I am sure our own attitudes will bend toward choosing the good over the bad.
Thank you for putting forward all the questions you have and for challenging me in a way. Through this conversation I have been able to voice how I truly see my own religion now and I am glad for our spirits that are searching for the truth.
A theory is a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts or phenomena. That doesn’t fit what you’re talking about. “this world was Jesus’ idea and His original plan was to create beings to share with Him and Heavenly bodies what they already were enjoying”… That’s not a theory. That’s not even a hypothesis. A hypothesis is a conjecture put forth as a possible explanation of phenomena or relations, which serves as a basis of argument or experimentation to reach the truth. A theory has substantial verifiable evidence backing it, a hypothesis can be tested. What you said… at most, is conjecture. An idea, a thought, an opinion. But has no more reason to be any more important to my life than the belief of a child that there’s a bogeyman.
So the rest, the “if this is true” will have to wait. I’ll go on with it once this is clarified into something that makes sense.
The book is called “the end of religion’
Meaning not needing to justify or come up with a hypothesis.
I have just started reading it and I think it’s gonna be one of those!!
I’m looking for ways to make it more clear so if I can I will send along the knowledge!!
People seem to want to put everything down and figure everything out and have all your scientific back up to defend your actions and thoughts as a result of the ‘truth’ u think you have found from this world!!
Faith is believing what you cannot see…..but one day will feel as a result of trusting the Being that says He is I AM!!
You know. Listening to you talk is like listening to a child talk about Santa Claus. Only, even children will realize the unlikeliness when shown the evidence. In this case, the child knows there’s nothing at the North Pole, they know the evolution and history of the fairy tale, they know the impossibility of visiting every house in one night, they’ve seen their parents putting out presents and eating the cookies, but they STILL insist:
People seem to want to put Santa down and figure him out and have all their facts back up their logic and ‘truth’ that they think they have found in this world!!
Magic is believing evidence that isn’t there…..but one day will feel as a result of trusting the Santa that says Ho Ho Ho!!
More or less. I’m sure the poor child would have better grammar and sentence structure, though.
The poor child is only poor by your standards……………….
“I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 18:3
Peace!
Numbers 31:17, 40
[Verse 17, Moses says:] “Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.”
[Verse 40:] The persons [women who had not known man by lying with him] were sixteen thousand, of which the Lord’s tribute was thirty-two persons.
Not sure I want to be like a child if that’s how god would like me treated. And why would I want to go to heaven? To be with Jesus? The same Jesus who said:
“Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s foes will be those of his own household.”
Matthew 10:34-35
No thanks. Neither option in this sounds appealing to me.
it’s always nice to see Xeno talk about religion and stuff…
just wana comment on some things
Xeno, faith is about giving in for something you dont have proof, if you had proof it wouldnt be called , now would it?
everybody has a different concept of happiness some find happiness, in money other in family other in friends others in god… it doesnt matter if those are actually real or not, the important thing is that one should seek what makes him happy and be happy and learn to be content…
believe whatever you want, remember to love, no matter what you believe or what religion you are in… love is everything.
That’s the point, Tricky. That’s always been the point. My brain doesn’t function on faith. Believing something with no evidence just because you’re threatened with eternal pain and suffering if you don’t makes absolutely no sense. Show me some scrap of evidence that this is any more than an ancient fairy tale, and I’ll give it due consideration. I’ve been looking for years, and I haven’t found anything but laughable nonsense. I’m not looking for faith, I’m looking for evidence.
You know, when someone believes they have superpowers but they really don’t, and they begin trying to protect people with them, causing problems and costing lives in the process, that’s called insanity. But when several someones believe that there’s a magical invisible man telling them what to do, and they try to protect the world, causing global problems and costing millions of lives in the process, that’s called a religion. I suppose it all depends on the scale of your destruction. Kill one man, you’re a murderer, kill many men, and you’re a conqueror, instruct the planet to kill them all… and you’re a god.
Xeno Dragon wrote:
That’s the point, Tricky. That’s always been the point. My brain doesn’t function on faith. Believing something with no evidence just because you’re threatened with eternal pain and suffering if you don’t makes absolutely no sense. Show me some scrap of evidence that this is any more than an ancient fairy tale, and I’ll give it due consideration. I’ve been looking for years, and I haven’t found anything but laughable nonsense. I’m not looking for faith, I’m looking for evidence.
You know, when someone believes they have superpowers but they really don’t, and they begin trying to protect people with them, causing problems and costing lives in the process, that’s called insanity. But when several someones believe that there’s a magical invisible man telling them what to do, and they try to protect the world, causing global problems and costing millions of lives in the process, that’s called a religion. I suppose it all depends on the scale of your destruction. Kill one man, you’re a murderer, kill many men, and you’re a conqueror, instruct the planet to kill them all… and you’re a god.
so i’m trying to point out to you, not to waste your time with any religion cause they are all bases on faith and no proof… all religion are bases on faith of some kind…
you know you are right and i do agree that religion has really screwed up, but you cant over look the good things of religion and stuff. a lot of ppl changed due to religion and become really good people and stuff, science began in the church, a lot of ppl had no place to go and faith gave them hope and gave them meaning to live… a lot of ppl have found happiness in religion and that is really good to them, you can say they believe in something not real but what is real? in the end if you wana look at it, everything is an illusion and everything is the grasp of the wind.
It’s not a waste of time. There IS a truth, and if there is a truth, there is evidence of it in some form. I will know it.
Many ancient civilizations collected astronomical information in a systematic manner through simple observation. Though they had no knowledge of the real physical structure of the planets and stars, many theoretical explanations were proposed. Basic facts about human physiology were known in some places, and alchemy was practiced in several civilizations. Considerable observation of macrobiotic flora and fauna was also performed… all of this long before any organized religion formed. Paganism was around, but not with any organization. Church had no more to do with the origin of science than any other story.
What is ‘real’ is what we can experience. See, touch, taste, smell, and hear. There is evidence of what is real. Name just about anything, and there is likely at least some evidence supporting it’s existence, even if it’s not there. But there is no evidence supporting most religions. Some have evidence, but it’s nowhere near proof. Christianity has nothing. Not a thing.
Xeno Dragon wrote:
It’s not a waste of time. There IS a truth, and if there is a truth, there is evidence of it in some form. I will know it.
Many ancient civilizations collected astronomical information in a systematic manner through simple observation. Though they had no knowledge of the real physical structure of the planets and stars, many theoretical explanations were proposed. Basic facts about human physiology were known in some places, and alchemy was practiced in several civilizations. Considerable observation of macrobiotic flora and fauna was also performed… all of this long before any organized religion formed. Paganism was around, but not with any organization. Church had no more to do with the origin of science than any other story.
What is ‘real’ is what we can experience. See, touch, taste, smell, and hear. There is evidence of what is real. Name just about anything, and there is likely at least some evidence supporting it’s existence, even if it’s not there. But there is no evidence supporting most religions. Some have evidence, but it’s nowhere near proof. Christianity has nothing. Not a thing.
so basically you are searching for all the religion in the world and seeing which one is true? or searching for philosophers and seeing which point of view you agree on somehow and think it is the truth?
well i think the church was the first organization to fund it and wanted to make it work and was trying to update it and stuff…
reality is a hard one to tackle, once i was trying to define what is real and i always seem to fall short, weird… then i realized that the senses show us what is real but what about the soul? the soul we cant see it touch it or hear it or what so ever but it is there isnt it? so is it real or just an illusion? with the definition we have in our hands that reality is what we hear and touch and see, then the soul doesnt exist…
then i thought of dreaming and that dreamz are not real so i should be able to compare dreams and the world and i concluded that reality ” Canot be bent, and it is continuous” ( cannot be bent i mean that like if you have a 1 m wide car you wont be able to park it in a 1/2m wide parking place)… like there is laws that cannot be breaken and stuff it is all under the law… that didnt feel right
now i have a new theory that is still in the making… reality doesnt exist, this world is just a reflection of us… when we see the world we are actually looking at ourself, when we look to this world we place ourself in this world, like looking into a mirror… there is no truth but prespective… 1 + 1 = 2 , 1 degree + 1 degree = 1 … at depeneds on what you car comparing and the relativity of it… car moving at a certain speed if you are moving in the opposite direction it is + ur speed , if you are moving with the direction of motion it is minus ur speed, if you are still it is the speed of the car, if the car is moving with the speed of light a totally new story ^_^…
the christian core strength isnt proof but faith, that is the power of it… that is what they preach, that they believe in what they dont have, remember when one of the student wanted to feel his wounds after he resurrected, jesus said blessed are who didnt touch and didnt see and believe and so did he do many times before his resurrection… you cant expect to attack christianity by saying there is no proof… trust me they like it that way :D
Truth. That’s the only important thing here. It doesn’t matter which one I would like to be true, or which I feel is true, there is a truth, and that is what I want to know. The Earth was round before everyone accepted it as the truth. Truth doesn’t care what we think, it is what it is. Knowing it is all I care about, here. If the Bible is accurate, so be it. If it’s not, then it’s just another false religion. If any of them are right, then all the rest are wrong. If none of them are right, then all of them are wrong.
The church has done more to retard the growth of science than any other individual or organization. http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/mw…
Show me any evidence that there’s a soul, and I’ll discuss its part in anything. Otherwise, we might as well be discussing human’s ability to turn into a jell-o mold.
Dreams are as real as thoughts and memories. They don’t ‘exist’ in the physical sense, but we can show brainwaves and energy signatures and other evidence that shows they are there. That, and without them, we wouldn’t even be able to question their existence.
There are laws in nature and the universe that cannot be broken. When standing on something with a large enough mass to hold you, then letting go of something with similar mass to you will fall towards the mass you’re standing on. Gravity. There is no situation where gravity will not function without external variables such as being immersed in water or the like.
Reality is nothing more than what exists. Saying otherwise is like a storybook saying words and paper don’t exist. Without them, there is nothing. We can believe we can fly, but the same thing will happen if we jump off a building as if we believe we will be splattered over half the block.
He also allowed them to touch his wounds anyway, as I recall. You can say I’ll be blessed if I believe you put a million dollars in my account, but I won’t believe you until I check.
Attack Christianity? I’m not attacking anything. I’m asking for proof. I haven’t found any whatsoever. I’m looking to compare notes. I figure the best bet for finding a good reason to follow one religion over another is to ask the people who choose to follow one over the others. So far, the best I’ve seen is, “Only God could make a rainbow! Look at a baby’s smile and you’ll see God!”
But that’s about as laughable as saying your noodle soup is sending you images of the Evil Lord Nergleplattr from the Orion star system, and he wants you to buy more mayonnaise for your houseplants. Just look in the bowl, you’ll see!
So I’m looking for proof. Or at least some shred of evidence. Any volunteers?
Ask why the Jews the Muslims and the Christians all believe in Jesus as a man of importance!
Maybe not with the same amount of belief that He is an important role in our human history.
Ask why the Bhuddists and the Hindus also consider His teachings to be of such great value………….
Ask for the second most common link if the first - God, is not enough for you.
Xeno Dragon wrote:
Truth. That’s the only important thing here. It doesn’t matter which one I would like to be true, or which I feel is true, there is a truth, and that is what I want to know. The Earth was round before everyone accepted it as the truth. Truth doesn’t care what we think, it is what it is. Knowing it is all I care about, here. If the Bible is accurate, so be it. If it’s not, then it’s just another false religion. If any of them are right, then all the rest are wrong. If none of them are right, then all of them are wrong.
The church has done more to retard the growth of science than any other individual or organization. http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/mw…
Show me any evidence that there’s a soul, and I’ll discuss its part in anything. Otherwise, we might as well be discussing human’s ability to turn into a jell-o mold.
Dreams are as real as thoughts and memories. They don’t ‘exist’ in the physical sense, but we can show brainwaves and energy signatures and other evidence that shows they are there. That, and without them, we wouldn’t even be able to question their existence.
There are laws in nature and the universe that cannot be broken. When standing on something with a large enough mass to hold you, then letting go of something with similar mass to you will fall towards the mass you’re standing on. Gravity. There is no situation where gravity will not function without external variables such as being immersed in water or the like.
Reality is nothing more than what exists. Saying otherwise is like a storybook saying words and paper don’t exist. Without them, there is nothing. We can believe we can fly, but the same thing will happen if we jump off a building as if we believe we will be splattered over half the block.
He also allowed them to touch his wounds anyway, as I recall. You can say I’ll be blessed if I believe you put a million dollars in my account, but I won’t believe you until I check.
Attack Christianity? I’m not attacking anything. I’m asking for proof. I haven’t found any whatsoever. I’m looking to compare notes. I figure the best bet for finding a good reason to follow one religion over another is to ask the people who choose to follow one over the others. So far, the best I’ve seen is, “Only God could make a rainbow! Look at a baby’s smile and you’ll see God!”
But that’s about as laughable as saying your noodle soup is sending you images of the Evil Lord Nergleplattr from the Orion star system, and he wants you to buy more mayonnaise for your houseplants. Just look in the bowl, you’ll see!
So I’m looking for proof. Or at least some shred of evidence. Any volunteers?
well good luck with what you seek, as for me i dont think it is worth it ^_^, i hope you find it worthy :)… i dont see any difference if god exists or not, he clearly wont interfere in humans life as we are a live when we die who knows ^_^…
i hope you find what you are seeking…
well i think the church at first wanted science to work, so it can prove the bible and what it says but when the scientist start to disagree the church went berserk at least that is the logical explanation for me :D…
ok not gona talk about the soul, i have no evidence ^_^…
Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! It will be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that very hour.
Mark 5:36
Ignoring what they said, Jesus told the synagogue ruler, “Don’t be afraid; just believe.”
Mark 9:23
” ‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for him who believes.”
etc…
like i told you before, dont waste your time asking ppl :D they just believe and that is the core of faith and religion, to believe without seeing or having proof…
i’ll volunteer ^_^
there is no proof what so ever…
waterbaby_f wrote:
Ask why the Jews the Muslims and the Christians all believe in Jesus as a man of importance!
Maybe not with the same amount of belief that He is an important role in our human history.
Ask why the Bhuddists and the Hindus also consider His teachings to be of such great value………….
Ask for the second most common link if the first - God, is not enough for you.
btw the jews with he is a false prophet at least that was what they thought of him last time i checked :D
muslim just read the bible and liked it and they thought he would make a good prophet
bhudist i doubt they consider his teaching as a good value i doubt that for hindusim as well…
it’s funny how christian makes everybody christian as well :D lol
i was told many time albert einstein was chrsitian :D
trust me he really isnt :D wikipedia :P
“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal god and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”[72] In his book The World as I See It, he wrote: “A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms—it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man.”
Yes like I said : to each of these religious groups Jesus is a man of importance!
Wiki - each of them and see!!
He is a link between all of these.
Wether by His actions or His teachings or just His way of faith!!
Not just because I am Christian - Jesus wasn’t a Christian - I am.
And by that I mean that I believe in the ways and the truths and the life of Jesus.
I believe that through Him and what He did on the cross He has made a way for me to be in a relationship with Him, Father and Spirit.
That is what it means to be a Christian.
If you like it or want it - you need to put away your thoughts of what this world tells you God is. He says that He broke the gap between God and man by sending His own Heart into this world so that we may know Him.
He says His heart is Jesus.
If this is so I challenge you to look at Jesus’ words more attentively.
If you think the Bible is tainted or tampered with - Then if you like ask for guidance. Even blind faith can be the initial drop in the pond that will cause the ripples to take affect!!
waterbaby_f wrote:
Ask why the Jews the Muslims and the Christians all believe in Jesus as a man of importance!
Maybe not with the same amount of belief that He is an important role in our human history.
Ask why the Bhuddists and the Hindus also consider His teachings to be of such great value………….
Ask for the second most common link if the first - God, is not enough for you.
waterbaby_f wrote:
Ask why the Jews the Muslims and the Christians all believe in Jesus as a man of importance!
Maybe not with the same amount of belief that He is an important role in our human history.
Ask why the Bhuddists and the Hindus also consider His teachings to be of such great value………….
Ask for the second most common link if the first - God, is not enough for you.
Think of it like a movie. The Torah is the first one, and the New Testament is the sequel. Then the Qu’ran comes out, and it retcons the last one like it never happened. There’s still Jesus, but he’s not the main character anymore, and the messiah hasn’t shown up yet. Jews like the first movie but ignored the sequels, Christians think you need to watch the first two, but the third movie doesn’t count, Muslims think the third one was the best. And then Mormons liked the second one so much they started writing fanfiction that didn’t fit with any of the series canon.
Judaism, Islam, and Christianity all share the same root, of course they’re similar. Then again, by the same logic you used, Satanism is in there right next to them on all accounts.
The reason many religions see “his” teachings to be important is because nearly every faith, religion and culture has had similar morals and teachings; from long before 6000 years ago and the happenings of the Bible. In fact, some have been far more peaceful, loving, and forgiving. See Paganism (the oldest religion) and Buddhism (the most peaceful).
I have to say I don’t understand what you’re trying to say in the last line. I think you had a few typos.
To tricky-
To believe whatever you’re told without question? That’s not belief, that’s gullibility. My brain will not accept that.
waterbaby_f wrote:
If you like it or want it - you need to put away your thoughts of what this world tells you God is. He says that He broke the gap between God and man by sending His own Heart into this world so that we may know Him.
He says His heart is Jesus.
No, the world says those things. The same world you say to disregard. I’ve yet to actually hear god say anything. Only other people claiming they heard him say this or that.
Blind faith is idiocy. You’ve heard the adage about the blind leading the blind, I suppose?
And okay. We’ll look at Jesus’ words as you suggested. New Testament, John. Jesus speaking.
John 10:30- I and my Father are one.
John 14:28- Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Before I go on, how can I trust the word of someone who directly contradicts himself about one of the core principles of the faith his words inspired? Even if I did trust him, even /then/, I’d still need a reason to believe that the Bible is anything more than historical fiction.
hey Xeno,
i dont know if i sounded like i dont agree with you but i really do ^_^. following blindly is stupid, and the bible contradicts itself a lot even at the core…
all am shedding light on is this
faith : belief that is not based on proof (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith)
there is no proof in religion just faith…
Ditzy
hateTHEhate
Xeno Dragon
waterbaby_f
tricky
