Is God real? - Help.com

depends on your religious belief..

of course god is real.. and i don’t think he has a particular faith, believe what you want to believe, in the end it’s the moral teachings which you take away from your faith, and the strength that you find which really counts. :)

It does matter for sure. Christian, you could say, but today there are so little ‘real’ Christians that it could fool you. Because these days many so called Christians live the same way as everyone else do. They should really not call themselves Christians then.

religion is like a bridge to reach god, like you have an island and there are several bridges to reach the island yet all lead to the same island ^_^

god most likly isnt real tho :P lol

ccapp5 wrote:
in the end it’s the moral teachings which you take away from your faith, and the strength that you find which really counts. :)

…and also the belief he created the Universe?

I don’t mean any offense by this, but isnt that a question you should figure out yourself rather than asking a bunch of strangers?

As real as a unicorn. There is no empirical evidence for YHWH or Allah(or a unicorn for that matter).

tricky wrote:
religion is like a bridge to reach god, like you have an island and there are several bridges to reach the island yet all lead to the same island ^_^

god most likly isnt real tho :P lol

- In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views. –Albert Einstein

Everyone may believe what the want to, just thought it was interesting.

God is real - above all religions ….

fractal.scatter wrote:

ccapp5 wrote:
in the end it’s the moral teachings which you take away from your faith, and the strength that you find which really counts. :)

…and also the belief he created the Universe?

hmmm.

werner7 wrote:

tricky wrote:
religion is like a bridge to reach god, like you have an island and there are several bridges to reach the island yet all lead to the same island ^_^

god most likly isnt real tho :P lol

- In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views. –Albert Einstein

Everyone may believe what the want to, just thought it was interesting.

-.-

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954, The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press)

crystal2blindnes wrote:
I don’t mean any offense by this, but isnt that a question you should figure out yourself rather than asking a bunch of strangers?

Yes this is true, because, how can you ask people not believing in a God about God, wanting an answer knowing who God really is.
Ask God to tell you, bring it along your path, dont just accept any doctrine, any believe. Seek the truth and make sure what you have is the truth and that there is power in what you believe.

Flying Spaghetti Monster and Lunos are real.

♪ PheeGee ♫ wrote:
Yes, and this is he:

http://www.evworld.com/press/boris_jo…

Orly? I thought it was he:

http://www.playbackarts.co.uk/meryfel…

ScienceRob wrote:

werner7 wrote:

tricky wrote:
religion is like a bridge to reach god, like you have an island and there are several bridges to reach the island yet all lead to the same island ^_^

god most likly isnt real tho :P lol

- In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views. –Albert Einstein

Everyone may believe what the want to, just thought it was interesting.

-.-

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954, The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press)

Very interesting yea, i have read something like that before, altho he never was a religious person, but i was using it to say that there is a God, for those who would say believe in evolution.

But I believe in a personal God, and the joy that He gives is unreal, the peace, the compassion for others. Its great. Life changing. Sure we all make mistakes and no one is perfect, therefor i do make mistakes in my life to. :P

I have a theory that i call the shepard theory. If God is the shepard and we are his flock and we are scattered throughout his meadow than why would we be given the exact same instructions to get back to him. The sheep by the trees would be told another path to take to Him than the sheep by the stream. He is real. I have felt his love.

Sponge wrote:
Orly? I thought it was he:

http://www.playbackarts.co.uk/meryfel…

Nah, thats the rural Buddha.[/quote]

My life… it’s in ruins… I’ve lived a lie!

♪ PheeGee ♫ wrote:

Sponge wrote:

♪ PheeGee ♫ wrote:
Yes, and this is he:

http://www.evworld.com/press/boris_jo…

Orly? I thought it was he:

http://www.playbackarts.co.uk/meryfel…

Nah, thats the rural Buddha.

You’re both wrong:
http://help.com/user/289852-fractalsc…

werner7 wrote:

ScienceRob wrote:

werner7 wrote:

tricky wrote:
religion is like a bridge to reach god, like you have an island and there are several bridges to reach the island yet all lead to the same island ^_^

god most likly isnt real tho :P lol

- In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views. –Albert Einstein

Everyone may believe what the want to, just thought it was interesting.

-.-

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954, The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press)

Very interesting yea, i have read something like that before, altho he never was a religious person, but i was using it to say that there is a God, for those who would say believe in evolution.

But I believe in a personal God, and the joy that He gives is unreal, the peace, the compassion for others. Its great. Life changing. Sure we all make mistakes and no one is perfect, therefor i do make mistakes in my life to. :P

I understand that. I was merely trying to point out the fallacy of appealing to authority. You are correct that a belief in a supernatural deity and evolution is possible, although a literal translation of the bible and acceptance of evolution is not.

fractal.scatter wrote:
You’re both wrong:
http://help.com/user/289852-fractalsc…

Well I didn’t vote for you.

Sponge wrote:

fractal.scatter wrote:
You’re both wrong:
http://help.com/user/289852-fractalsc…

Well I didn’t vote for you.

Owww.

Sad now.

larfing197 wrote:
I have a theory that i call the shepard theory. If God is the shepard and we are his flock and we are scattered throughout his meadow than why would we be given the exact same instructions to get back to him. The sheep by the trees would be told another path to take to Him than the sheep by the stream. He is real. I have felt his love.

Somehow this is true, if not all, i cant find anything that does contradict to God, but the shepherd thing comes for the Bible, yes we all have different places we come from, however a shepherd, at night what does he do? this was in Bible times so, look up history. He takes the sheep, puts the into the barn, or stable and he sleeps in the door of the stable, to protect his sheep. but the goats, and other animals he leaves outside. He sleeps in the door to protect them. And as the Bible says:
John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

fractal.scatter wrote:
Owww.

Sad now.

Don’t be sad mini me.

*yawn*

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Isn’t quoting bible passages fun?

ScienceRob wrote:
I understand that. I was merely trying to point out the fallacy of appealing to authority. You are correct that a belief in a supernatural deity and evolution is possible, although a literal translation of the bible and acceptance of evolution is not.

Cool, but the last sentence sorry this is just a language understanding error, what do you mean by it. *english isnt my first language* lol.

About as fun as licking a pencil.

Actually that sounds fun. I’mma go do that now.

ScienceRob wrote:
*yawn*

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Isn’t quoting bible passages fun?

You would have thought they’d have got their stories straight before giving evidence wouldn’t you.

no one knows for sure if there is a God or not. It’s only a belief. and I think that if there is a God. then the God that all those religions worship will all be the same one. the religions and ways they worship are just different. but I don’t think it matters

werner7 wrote:

ScienceRob wrote:
I understand that. I was merely trying to point out the fallacy of appealing to authority. You are correct that a belief in a supernatural deity and evolution is possible, although a literal translation of the bible and acceptance of evolution is not.

Cool, but the last sentence sorry this is just a language understanding error, what do you mean by it. *english isnt my first language* lol.

What I am telling you is that you accept the bible to be the inerrant word of god, 100% truth then you cannot accept the theory of evolution, or many other theories of science. The bible contradicts that theory in the development of the word by Yahweh so you either have to interpret it a metaphor of some sort or take a literal translation of it and thus decry science as false.

Sponge wrote:
About as fun as licking a pencil.

Actually that sounds fun. I’mma go do that now.

Do wha…?

fractal.scatter wrote:

Sponge wrote:
About as fun as licking a pencil.

Actually that sounds fun. I’mma go do that now.

Do wha…?

Lick a pencil!

ScienceRob wrote:

werner7 wrote:

ScienceRob wrote:
I understand that. I was merely trying to point out the fallacy of appealing to authority. You are correct that a belief in a supernatural deity and evolution is possible, although a literal translation of the bible and acceptance of evolution is not.

Cool, but the last sentence sorry this is just a language understanding error, what do you mean by it. *english isnt my first language* lol.

What I am telling you is that you accept the bible to be the inerrant word of god, 100% truth then you cannot accept the theory of evolution, or many other theories of science. The bible contradicts that theory in the development of the word by Yahweh so you either have to interpret it a metaphor of some sort or take a literal translation of it and thus decry science as false.

Ill rather deny where science contradict the Word of God, as to denying the Bible.
Show where science have concrete evidence opposing to anything that God said and you wont find anything. Yes some stuff seems unreal, but dont forget God isnt man, He is Almighty, so dont limit Him to the power of a man. Thats how i see it, altho everyone may believe it the way they want. I choose to believe it this way.

*Insert brick wall here*

Sponge wrote:

fractal.scatter wrote:

Sponge wrote:
About as fun as licking a pencil.

Actually that sounds fun. I’mma go do that now.

Do wha…?

Lick a pencil!

*licks pencil*

Urghhhhh! Minger.

:P

why is this post unsuitable for under 18’s? ahaha.

fractal.scatter wrote:
*licks pencil*

Urghhhhh! Minger.

:P

It only works with a 2b, dontcha know. :P

ccapp5 wrote:
why is this post unsuitable for under 18’s? ahaha.

The pencil action, probably.

Sponge wrote:

ccapp5 wrote:
why is this post unsuitable for under 18’s? ahaha.

The pencil action, probably.

fair point.

ccapp5 wrote:

Sponge wrote:

ccapp5 wrote:
why is this post unsuitable for under 18’s? ahaha.

The pencil action, probably.

fair point.

It is now though. And yeah, Sponge started licking a pencil. We can’t have that sort of behavior in front of the kiddies.

I didn’t think licking pencils alluded to anything pornographic.

… oh wait…

werner7 wrote:

ScienceRob wrote:

werner7 wrote:

ScienceRob wrote:
I understand that. I was merely trying to point out the fallacy of appealing to authority. You are correct that a belief in a supernatural deity and evolution is possible, although a literal translation of the bible and acceptance of evolution is not.

Cool, but the last sentence sorry this is just a language understanding error, what do you mean by it. *english isnt my first language* lol.

What I am telling you is that you accept the bible to be the inerrant word of god, 100% truth then you cannot accept the theory of evolution, or many other theories of science. The bible contradicts that theory in the development of the word by Yahweh so you either have to interpret it a metaphor of some sort or take a literal translation of it and thus decry science as false.

Ill rather deny where science contradict the Word of God, as to denying the Bible.
Show where science have concrete evidence opposing to anything that God said and you wont find anything. Yes some stuff seems unreal, but dont forget God isnt man, He is Almighty, so dont limit Him to the power of a man. Thats how i see it, altho everyone may believe it the way they want. I choose to believe it this way.

The age of the Earth, evolution of man and the scientific evidence behind it, the lack of evidence for a global flood much less the ability for a human to build an arc that could handle the logistics required for a global flood I can continue if you wish. Denying the bible doesn’t mean you have to reject god, Werner, merely the bilblical god. You can still posit a deist god.

Fractal you can’t allowed to edit my posts!

I’m onto you… *sneer*…

Sponge wrote:
Fractal you can’t allowed to edit my posts!

I’m onto you… *sneer*…

Ooops. Wrong button :P

(honest)

ScienceRob wrote:

werner7 wrote:

ScienceRob wrote:

werner7 wrote:

ScienceRob wrote:
I understand that. I was merely trying to point out the fallacy of appealing to authority. You are correct that a belief in a supernatural deity and evolution is possible, although a literal translation of the bible and acceptance of evolution is not.

Cool, but the last sentence sorry this is just a language understanding error, what do you mean by it. *english isnt my first language* lol.

What I am telling you is that you accept the bible to be the inerrant word of god, 100% truth then you cannot accept the theory of evolution, or many other theories of science. The bible contradicts that theory in the development of the word by Yahweh so you either have to interpret it a metaphor of some sort or take a literal translation of it and thus decry science as false.

Ill rather deny where science contradict the Word of God, as to denying the Bible.
Show where science have concrete evidence opposing to anything that God said and you wont find anything. Yes some stuff seems unreal, but dont forget God isnt man, He is Almighty, so dont limit Him to the power of a man. Thats how i see it, altho everyone may believe it the way they want. I choose to believe it this way.

The age of the Earth, evolution of man and the scientific evidence behind it, the lack of evidence for a global flood much less the ability for a human to build an arc that could handle the logistics required for a global flood I can continue if you wish. Denying the bible doesn’t mean you have to reject god, Werner, merely the bilblical god. You can still posit a deist god.

There is however plenty of reasoning on the arc, and also, they think the grand canyon could have been formed due to the flood, they whole world changed, moved. However i get what you mean, but the Bible have never failed me yet, but rather prooven to me that its powerful, if you use it right. And about a human building an arc, who said they didnt have the technology like they might have today, since it was 2000years after man have been on the earth till the flood, and men lived longer than they do today, so more time, for inventions. :P but hey, lets not make this an arguement, im not a sales person for Christ, only a follower, and where i can be of service, i would like to help, but its not for me to choose other’s paths of life. :P

If you want to say I have faith in my god, then yes it is your choice and I have no problem with that. My problem is when theists, particularly creationists, choose to butcher science in the name of religion, like you are doing now. If you want, create a new post on Noah’s Arc and I will respond to that telling you the specifics of why a global flood could not have occurred and why the arc is science fiction at best.

ScienceRob wrote:
If you want to say I have faith in my god, then yes it is your choice and I have no problem with that. My problem is when theists, particularly creationists, choose to butcher science in the name of religion, like you are doing now. If you want, create a new post on Noah’s Arc and I will respond to that telling you the specifics of why a global flood could not have occurred and why the arc is science fiction at best.

:) its okay, arguments dont achieve much, but brings strive and upsetness. We should rather talk about something more in general, and something that enjoyable to everyone.
But this conversation was interesting and nice to hear the other side of stories too.

Good man werner. :)

Sponge wrote:
Good man werner. :)

:D should we start a new post on something and make it the largest post of the day?

werner7 wrote:

Sponge wrote:
Good man werner. :)

:D should we start a new post on something and make it the largest post of the day?

It’s my sleepy bed time, lol. But if you want, you has my approval.

Sponge wrote:

werner7 wrote:

Sponge wrote:
Good man werner. :)

:D should we start a new post on something and make it the largest post of the day?

It’s my sleepy bed time, lol. But if you want, you has my approval.

already posted. Just say something before hitting bed then. :P

God above all, let’s set aside, the religion aspect because these are man made ideals… that come with rules attached.

Man has a really good way of pluckin up a good thing especially when it doesn’t need fixin, but if you want to know if there is a God, then the best way for you to find out that answer is to get down on your knees and ask God in the privacy of your own room, and if you truly are wanting to know, ask that He make Himself known to you. Expect that the answer will not necessarily be answered during that time or how you expect.

If you want to know about someone, yes you can ask other people, and that usually works to a certain extent, but we all have different views on the same person. Such as Tony down the block. He may be ellusive to you, but to me, I may know him well because I actually took the time to know him, you perhaps have mistakenly made a quick judgement based on how your sister sees Tony.

You’ll never know if he’s a nice guy unless you yourself approach him and give him a chance.

srnityblu wrote:
God above all, let’s set aside, the religion aspect because these are man made ideals… that come with rules attached.

Man has a really good way of pluckin up a good thing especially when it doesn’t need fixin, but if you want to know if there is a God, then the best way for you to find out that answer is to get down on your knees and ask God in the privacy of your own room, and if you truly are wanting to know, ask that He make Himself known to you. Expect that the answer will not necessarily be answered during that time or how you expect.

If you want to know about someone, yes you can ask other people, and that usually works to a certain extent, but we all have different views on the same person. Such as Tony down the block. He may be ellusive to you, but to me, I may know him well because I actually took the time to know him, you perhaps have mistakenly made a quick judgement based on how your sister sees Tony.

You’ll never know if he’s a nice guy unless you yourself approach him and give him a chance.

One amazing mum you are, this world needs more mums like this, and more of God’s Grace. :D thank you.

Awwww, thank you, hugs!

Religion create division, make the Muslim hate the Christian. Find God in your own way, seek him in all aspects, question everything anyone has ever told you about faith and reach our own conclusion. It’s a long road but a liberating one when you put in the work to better understand such an important question.

mistere wrote:
Religion create division, make the Muslim hate the Christian. Find God in your own way, seek him in all aspects, question everything anyone has ever told you about faith and reach our own conclusion. It’s a long road but a liberating one when you put in the work to better understand such an important question.

Religion does cause division, Christianity was put under religion. but in reality its a relationship, not religion.

Cell wrote:
Yes, God is real. Shout me if you want to know more.

Ill add you as a friend now, so i can shout to you when i need to.

I am an athiest, but personally I think any deity is as real as you want them to be - it is up to the individual to decide.
And no, there is no harmony in the universe, that’s bs.
imho if there is a god, then is he not omnipotent? so, why doesn’t this god creature fix what is wrong in the world, or the universe? If it cannot, it is not omnipotent. If it will not, it is malevolent. Either way, to me, it renders the idea of a god flawed. But, it is a moral quandry - what if our actions destroyed the god/s, what if we repulsed it/them so much they gave up?
Philosophy is fun, but meh, idc anymore.
Oh, and just for funsies, read ‘the call of cthulu’, or anything from the cthulu, or dagos, novella by HP lovecraft. Does a lot for the idea of a malevolent god-creature actually. Plus they are pretty good stories.

This isn’t a question someone else can answer for you here on this Earth. All it does is make arguments between people. It’s sad and pathetic. I used to not believe in God, but things changed for me. God is real to me. But I found God. So all I can honestly say is you need to seek God yourself to answer this question.

Let’s pretend that god is a large lizard-creature from the planet Kanab. Let’s also assume that god grew us from the mold developing on the top of his leftover beer.

Any attempt to prove or disprove this given our current knowledge is just as fruitful and just as fruitless as trying to prove or disprove any Christian, Hebrew, or Muslim god. Same for the creation myth.

If we can no better prove or disprove one god over another… it’s a moot point.

You either have blind faith, or you don’t.

*Note: Many have ’spiritual testaments’ to the truth of one god or another. But, as none of these are objectively verifiable, they do not move faith into the realm of rational belief. Faith remains simply that, blind faith. Being able to gain faith through prayer or worship works as effectively for one god as another, and as such does not strengthen or weaken any arguments.

yes of cuz everyone will realize abt it one day in our life so wait an see…

http://truth-saves.com/

Best Website Ever :)

yup God’s real and it does matter lol His name is Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace…haha or maybe a more recognizable name as Jesus, but hey what do I know? don’t take my word for it ;) you should probably start reading the scriptures haha

U.S. Atheist wrote:
No.

ScienceRob wrote:
As real as a unicorn. There is no empirical evidence for YHWH or Allah(or a unicorn for that matter).

That’s pretty much all I was going to say.

We are so outnumbered here! Oh the rational are few..

Open question, any are welcome to contribute or not to as they will:

Please provide 5 reasons why an individual should believe that god exists.

or

Please provide 5 reasons why an individual should not believe that god exists.

i hope there is a god, because if not what am i living for?

unimportant wrote:
i hope there is a god, because if not what am i living for?

That’s an excellent question, but the relief that may be experienced by believing in something doesn’t necessarily make it true.

If I were to believe that to die while killing others who have a different faith (say as a suicide bomber) would purchase me a seat in heaven and virgin wives, I might or might not be correct. And if I were to say ‘Well, it better be true, because if not, what the hell am I killing myself for?’, it would have no bearing on the truth or untruth of my supposition.

Buddhadadada.

for me he aint, i believe in the goddess Nyx. so my answer is no.

Yes, there really is an invisible man in the sky who watches all the events in the world going on and does nothing. To quote Epicurus
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

If you believe in God you should also believe in Santa, Leprachauns, The Cookie Monster and the Easter Bunny. They all have the same amount of proof.

flipped_philosopher wrote:
Yes, there really is an invisible man in the sky who watches all the events in the world going on and does nothing. To quote Epicurus
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

If you believe in God you should also believe in Santa, Leprachauns, The Cookie Monster and the Easter Bunny. They all have the same amount of proof.

God gave us free moral agency, people choose to not let God help them. Its because you dont know God that you make miss judgments.

werner7 wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:
Yes, there really is an invisible man in the sky who watches all the events in the world going on and does nothing. To quote Epicurus
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

If you believe in God you should also believe in Santa, Leprachauns, The Cookie Monster and the Easter Bunny. They all have the same amount of proof.

God gave us free moral agency, people choose to not let God help them. Its because you dont know God that you make miss judgments.

Still, by creating the ability not to be good God would have effectively created evil. I have proof for all my claims, where’s yours?

God didnt create evil, satan did.

werner7 wrote:
God didnt create evil, satan did.

Then God is willing to stop evil however he is not able to destroy Satan. He is not Omnipotent.

flipped_philosopher wrote:
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

I don’t see how. I can help some people but choose not to - that don’t make me “wishing or appearing to wish evil to others”, I just don’t want to. Claiming otherwise is very narrow-minded.

‘Sides, I haven’t seen any place that writes this God thing ain’t malevolent. Maybe you’ve taken that from the New Testimony, I dunno.

Crazy Cat Lord. wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

I don’t see how. I can help some people but choose not to - that don’t make me “wishing or appearing to wish evil to others”, I just don’t want to. Claiming otherwise is very narrow-minded.

No but you are not an omnipotent being who could do so easily with a flick of his finger.

flipped_philosopher wrote:

Crazy Cat Lord. wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

I don’t see how. I can help some people but choose not to - that don’t make me “wishing or appearing to wish evil to others”, I just don’t want to. Claiming otherwise is very narrow-minded.

No but you are not an omnipotent being who could do so easily with a flick of his finger.

1) Still don’t make it evil, not doing anything. If God didn’t want any “evil”, they wouldn’t have created humans. At least not the kind of humans you know.

2) Evil is a human-made measurement.

flipped_philosopher wrote:

werner7 wrote:
God didnt create evil, satan did.

Then God is willing to stop evil however he is not able to destroy Satan. He is not Omnipotent.

See its more than that, he can destroy satan, He will destroy satan, but not until all is done that needs to be done, besides, satan, if you knew, was/is the strongest, most powerful Angel there is. Who wished to be higher, more important than God, so kicked out of heaven. To you this will sound like a fairy tale perhaps. Satan best at deceiving, the only power he has now, after Calvary, is deceiving a whole lot of people like we see now. And also sadly millions of Christians, by letting believe they are Christians but their hearts are far from it.

Crazy Cat Lord. wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:

Crazy Cat Lord. wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

I don’t see how. I can help some people but choose not to - that don’t make me “wishing or appearing to wish evil to others”, I just don’t want to. Claiming otherwise is very narrow-minded.

No but you are not an omnipotent being who could do so easily with a flick of his finger.

1) Still don’t make it evil, not doing anything. If God didn’t want any “evil”, they wouldn’t have created humans. At least not the kind of humans you know.

2) Evil is a human-made measurement.

Not According to YOUR holy Text

werner7 wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:

werner7 wrote:
God didnt create evil, satan did.

Then God is willing to stop evil however he is not able to destroy Satan. He is not Omnipotent.

See its more than that, he can destroy satan, He will destroy satan, but not until all is done that needs to be done, besides, satan, if you knew, was/is the strongest, most powerful Angel there is. Who wished to be higher, more important than God, so kicked out of heaven. To you this will sound like a fairy tale perhaps. Satan best at deceiving, the only power he has now, after Calvary, is deceiving a whole lot of people like we see now. And also sadly millions of Christians, by letting believe they are Christians but their hearts are far from it.

So basically God is not willing b/c all that needs to be done is not done and not able b/c Satan is the most powerful angel. He is not willing or able, how can you call him God?

flipped_philosopher wrote:

Crazy Cat Lord. wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:

Crazy Cat Lord. wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

I don’t see how. I can help some people but choose not to - that don’t make me “wishing or appearing to wish evil to others”, I just don’t want to. Claiming otherwise is very narrow-minded.

No but you are not an omnipotent being who could do so easily with a flick of his finger.

1) Still don’t make it evil, not doing anything. If God didn’t want any “evil”, they wouldn’t have created humans. At least not the kind of humans you know.

2) Evil is a human-made measurement.

Not According to YOUR holy Text

werner7 wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:

werner7 wrote:
God didnt create evil, satan did.

Then God is willing to stop evil however he is not able to destroy Satan. He is not Omnipotent.

See its more than that, he can destroy satan, He will destroy satan, but not until all is done that needs to be done, besides, satan, if you knew, was/is the strongest, most powerful Angel there is. Who wished to be higher, more important than God, so kicked out of heaven. To you this will sound like a fairy tale perhaps. Satan best at deceiving, the only power he has now, after Calvary, is deceiving a whole lot of people like we see now. And also sadly millions of Christians, by letting believe they are Christians but their hearts are far from it.

So basically God is not willing b/c all that needs to be done is not done and not able b/c Satan is the most powerful angel. He is not willing or able, how can you call him God?

I didnt say God wasnt able, sure He is able, are you able to write a 50 000 word essay on anything, grammer doesnt matter?? sure no problem. Do it then? No you dont want to. What if God has a set of rules, plans that He wants to follow, that we with our small minds cant figure out, neither is man perfect like He, so how do you expect God to do what we want Him to do? Doesnt make sense. If you were a god will you do everything and anything i wanted? No dont think so.

werner7 wrote:

mistere wrote:
Religion create division, make the Muslim hate the Christian. Find God in your own way, seek him in all aspects, question everything anyone has ever told you about faith and reach our own conclusion. It’s a long road but a liberating one when you put in the work to better understand such an important question.

Religion does cause division, Christianity was put under religion. but in reality its a relationship, not religion.

I agree with you on this one!

There’s no gods, there’s no truth and no absolute laws in this world.
Just live with it.

OK Werner, I’ll admit you have a good argument for that one. I would need more thought to do proper battle with you on Epicurus further. However, since your God is relient on being Omnipotent, can he make 1 + 1 = 5? If he can then all logic, which he created, doesn’t really exist and all modern inventions will cease to work. If he can’t then he’s not really omnipotent is he?

Alhoo wrote:
There’s no gods, there’s no truth and no absolute laws in this world.
Just live with it.

I couldn’t agree more about the God’s, but there are SOME absolute laws. i.e. most physical laws. Here’s to logic *toasts glass*

flipped_philosopher wrote:
there are SOME absolute laws. i.e. most physical laws.

flipped_philosopher wrote:
OK Werner, I’ll admit you have a good argument for that one. I would need more thought to do proper battle with you on Epicurus further. However, since your God is relient on being Omnipotent, can he make 1 + 1 = 5? If he can then all logic, which he created, doesn’t really exist and all modern inventions will cease to work. If he can’t then he’s not really omnipotent is he?

Alhoo wrote:
There’s no gods, there’s no truth and no absolute laws in this world.
Just live with it.

I couldn’t agree more about the God’s, but there are SOME absolute laws. i.e. most physical laws. Here’s to logic *toasts glass*

God cant do everything, or how to put it, chooses to never do it, took the ability out, He can never, ever, lie, neither would He try tho, because of His nature.
But was a nice arguement, before we get a bitter taste in our mouth for each other, lets not go any further as we can clearly see neither me or you will change the other persons opnion. :P I say God is real, you say no. Thats fine, and why believe in a God when you dont believe really in one. :P
Thanks for your time too!

in short, yeah, and he doesnt follow a religion he makes them, started out with jews, moved to christian. idk about muslim it was made up by a prophet who really didnt have any proof whatsoever that he had ever had contact with God. I just dont buy it.

werner7 wrote:
God cant do everything, or how to put it, chooses to never do it

Is God real?
If he is is he muslim christian or jew? or does that matter?

*That sounds like a suggestion that “God” worships “Himself”

By the way, I’m basically agnostic, although what I have learned of Therevada Buddhism is very helpful to me in times of despare.

werner7 wrote:
God didnt create evil, satan did.

If you believe in “free will” then you should believe ‘evil’ is an act of man. After all, Adam and Eve made the CHOICE to eat the fruit, they were coerced by the ’serpent’, but not forced by it.

Despite all the arguments on the subject, if you believe in ‘God’ then this God is real to you. You will see reality in this perspective, and you will likely make many good decisions based on this.

If you have doubts about the existence of ‘God’, then I would suggest discarding the subject all together. If you spend every day worried about consequence, you may be too fearful to live. If you choose to forget religion, then you are free to live for yourself. In this perspective, you are also likely to make good decisions.

My bias is that if you do not believe in religious redemption, the last thing you’d want to do is commit a crime that leads to life in prison or a death penalty. Although there are many good citizens of the faith, I wonder that {perhaps I could use life-sentence-murderers as an example?} people who believe in forgiveness and redemption - and life after death - may be inclined to do wrong towards others out of anger more often, yet justify their regrets far too easily. Perhaps faith is simply used to control people who are not submissive.

Please do not spend so much time wondering, simply pick one belief and live to be a happy and sensible person.

Alhoo wrote:

werner7 wrote:
God cant do everything, or how to put it, chooses to never do it

So you’re detheist? Nice to hear.

*deist* (not trying to be a smart*** just tryin’ to help. pronounced Dayist. Interesting fact, Thomas Jefferson was one.

Is he real? He is as real as Smokey the Bear.Is Barbyman real? He is as real as they come .Is God a Catholic? Is he a Muslim? He is what you want him to be in your Imagination.In actual Fact he is an Atom.His Angels are Electrons orbiting around him constantly.He can change in to any Element in existence.He is Zillion times faster than a Bullet.He has Sex only with other Atoms.That my Friends is the Truth…

flipped_philosopher wrote:
*deist* (not trying to be a smart*** just tryin’ to help. pronounced Dayist. Interesting fact, Thomas Jefferson was one.

Alhoo wrote:

werner7 wrote:
God cant do everything, or how to put it, chooses to never do it

So you’re detheist? Nice to hear.

Not at all, for He is still here and very active. :P

werner7 wrote:
Not at all, for He is still here and very active. :P

god is a lie
like cake

there is evidence that at least christianity is false
lotsa it

andre wrote:
Short answer: NO ; They just needed a method of control over population in ancient times. If somebody can`t figure this out, he is not evolved enough.

Thanks…I love u andre.
Imma go ahead & paste this 2 facebook….

man made god, not the other way around…
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid…
any1 who clicks it is either an idiot or will instantly become an atheist

andre wrote:
Short answer: NO ; They just needed a method of control over population in ancient times. If somebody can`t figure this out, he is not evolved enough.

First they needed a god to explain the world. People fear unexplored that’s why they needed a god. Its existence explains everything.

I am LDS and I strongly believe he is there.

Those of you who say, “Well you can’t see him!” Well can you see the wind? NO you can’t! But you know it is there just like God. We can feel him and we have the knowledge like common sense. He is there making miracles. I remember one time as I cried in my bed I prayed to be comforted and suddenly I got this warm feeling and I was calm. There are so many testomonies of him and the truth. I believe he is there. No scratch that, I KNOW he is there. I know he lived and I know he is watching us. He loves us no matter what.

So yes he is real I know it for sure. I’m a teenager and I am lost and scared and I don’t know a lot. But what I do know is he is there!

andre wrote:
Short answer: NO ; They just needed a method of control over population in ancient times. If somebody can`t figure this out, he is not evolved enough.

Fools find God comforting, Wise men find it fake and leaders useful - Napoleon Bonaparte. Great quote

misunderstood4 wrote:
I am LDS and I strongly believe he is there.

Those of you who say, “Well you can’t see him!” Well can you see the wind? NO you can’t! But you know it is there just like God. We can feel him and we have the knowledge like common sense. He is there making miracles. I remember one time as I cried in my bed I prayed to be comforted and suddenly I got this warm feeling and I was calm. There are so many testomonies of him and the truth. I believe he is there. No scratch that, I KNOW he is there. I know he lived and I know he is watching us. He loves us no matter what.

So yes he is real I know it for sure. I’m a teenager and I am lost and scared and I don’t know a lot. But what I do know is he is there!

About that comfort, that blessed feeling, its amazing, and also, if no Christian or believer of God have felt that, you can too, you wont need another reason after that to wonder if He is real, because you WILL know He is real.

misunderstood4 wrote:
I am LDS and I strongly believe he is there.

Those of you who say, “Well you can’t see him!” Well can you see the wind? NO you can’t! But you know it is there just like God. We can feel him and we have the knowledge like common sense. He is there making miracles. I remember one time as I cried in my bed I prayed to be comforted and suddenly I got this warm feeling and I was calm. There are so many testomonies of him and the truth. I believe he is there. No scratch that, I KNOW he is there. I know he lived and I know he is watching us. He loves us no matter what.

So yes he is real I know it for sure. I’m a teenager and I am lost and scared and I don’t know a lot. But what I do know is he is there!

The wind can be proven by examining the movement of air from High to Low areas of pressure. God cannot be proven, and has no evidence for his existence. And there were also once many testimonies that once you reached a certain point on the Earth you would fall off. Does that make the Earth flat? Sure, maybe you prayed once and got comforted, but that was what religion was invented for, comfort. Just because you prayed and got happy doesn’t make God real. I could watch Sponge Bob Squarepants and laugh and get happy, does that mean that there is really a talking sea sponge wearing pants? No.

werner7 wrote:

misunderstood4 wrote:
I am LDS and I strongly believe he is there.

Those of you who say, “Well you can’t see him!” Well can you see the wind? NO you can’t! But you know it is there just like God. We can feel him and we have the knowledge like common sense. He is there making miracles. I remember one time as I cried in my bed I prayed to be comforted and suddenly I got this warm feeling and I was calm. There are so many testomonies of him and the truth. I believe he is there. No scratch that, I KNOW he is there. I know he lived and I know he is watching us. He loves us no matter what.

So yes he is real I know it for sure. I’m a teenager and I am lost and scared and I don’t know a lot. But what I do know is he is there!

About that comfort, that blessed feeling, its amazing, and also, if no Christian or believer of God have felt that, you can too, you wont need another reason after that to wonder if He is real, because you WILL know He is real.

I like how you put that! I had to re-read it though to see if you were dissing me and my belief though! HAHA1 I have comprehension problems.

werner7 wrote:

misunderstood4 wrote:
I am LDS and I strongly believe he is there.

Those of you who say, “Well you can’t see him!” Well can you see the wind? NO you can’t! But you know it is there just like God. We can feel him and we have the knowledge like common sense. He is there making miracles. I remember one time as I cried in my bed I prayed to be comforted and suddenly I got this warm feeling and I was calm. There are so many testomonies of him and the truth. I believe he is there. No scratch that, I KNOW he is there. I know he lived and I know he is watching us. He loves us no matter what.

So yes he is real I know it for sure. I’m a teenager and I am lost and scared and I don’t know a lot. But what I do know is he is there!

About that comfort, that blessed feeling, its amazing, and also, if no Christian or believer of God have felt that, you can too, you wont need another reason after that to wonder if He is real, because you WILL know He is real.

You can’t know something without proof. It’s just a strong conviction, in your case false.

God’s existence can’t be proven or disproven. I am christian and I have faith that God is real.

flipped_philosopher wrote:

misunderstood4 wrote:
I am LDS and I strongly believe he is there.

Those of you who say, “Well you can’t see him!” Well can you see the wind? NO you can’t! But you know it is there just like God. We can feel him and we have the knowledge like common sense. He is there making miracles. I remember one time as I cried in my bed I prayed to be comforted and suddenly I got this warm feeling and I was calm. There are so many testomonies of him and the truth. I believe he is there. No scratch that, I KNOW he is there. I know he lived and I know he is watching us. He loves us no matter what.

So yes he is real I know it for sure. I’m a teenager and I am lost and scared and I don’t know a lot. But what I do know is he is there!

The wind can be proven by examining the movement of air from High to Low areas of pressure. God cannot be proven, and has no evidence for his existence. And there were also once many testimonies that once you reached a certain point on the Earth you would fall off. Does that make the Earth flat? Sure, maybe you prayed once and got comforted, but that was what religion was invented for, comfort. Just because you prayed and got happy doesn’t make God real. I could watch Sponge Bob Squarepants and laugh and get happy, does that mean that there is really a talking sea sponge wearing pants? No.

Can you taste the wind? Tell me what does the wind taste like?? Can you touch the wind?? Tell me what does wind feel like?? These things are complicated and hard to explain. same as god. I have evidence I have plenty of evidence. Even though some people do not believe they are still being blessed by him. Check out lds.org check out the stories and you will see that he is real. There are different types of pleasure. The pleasure you feel when you are blessed is incredible. It’s hard to explain and once you feel it you understand.

jamesmccrore wrote:
God’s existence can’t be proven or disproven. I am christian and I have faith that God is real.

Faith is an irrational belief meant to make people “feel” better.

misunderstood4 wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:

misunderstood4 wrote:
I am LDS and I strongly believe he is there.

Those of you who say, “Well you can’t see him!” Well can you see the wind? NO you can’t! But you know it is there just like God. We can feel him and we have the knowledge like common sense. He is there making miracles. I remember one time as I cried in my bed I prayed to be comforted and suddenly I got this warm feeling and I was calm. There are so many testomonies of him and the truth. I believe he is there. No scratch that, I KNOW he is there. I know he lived and I know he is watching us. He loves us no matter what.

So yes he is real I know it for sure. I’m a teenager and I am lost and scared and I don’t know a lot. But what I do know is he is there!

The wind can be proven by examining the movement of air from High to Low areas of pressure. God cannot be proven, and has no evidence for his existence. And there were also once many testimonies that once you reached a certain point on the Earth you would fall off. Does that make the Earth flat? Sure, maybe you prayed once and got comforted, but that was what religion was invented for, comfort. Just because you prayed and got happy doesn’t make God real. I could watch Sponge Bob Squarepants and laugh and get happy, does that mean that there is really a talking sea sponge wearing pants? No.

Can you taste the wind? Tell me what does the wind taste like?? Can you touch the wind?? Tell me what does wind feel like?? These things are complicated and hard to explain. same as god. I have evidence I have plenty of evidence. Even though some people do not believe they are still being blessed by him. Check out lds.org check out the stories and you will see that he is real. There are different types of pleasure. The pleasure you feel when you are blessed is incredible. It’s hard to explain and once you feel it you understand.

You can have all the stories in the world and it doesn’t make something true. The wind CAN be felt by the heat it removes from the skin. Not to mention that it PHYSICALLY moves other objects. See, not so complicated or hard to explain.

5 reasons for believing God is merely a fabricated work of fiction.

1)One cannot smell God.
2)One cannot hear God.
3)One cannot see God.
4)One cannot taste God.
5)One cannot touch God.

Wind is the movement of molecules, isn’t it.

flipped_philosopher wrote:

jamesmccrore wrote:
God’s existence can’t be proven or disproven. I am christian and I have faith that God is real.

Faith is an irrational belief meant to make people “feel” better.

misunderstood4 wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:

misunderstood4 wrote:
I am LDS and I strongly believe he is there.

Those of you who say, “Well you can’t see him!” Well can you see the wind? NO you can’t! But you know it is there just like God. We can feel him and we have the knowledge like common sense. He is there making miracles. I remember one time as I cried in my bed I prayed to be comforted and suddenly I got this warm feeling and I was calm. There are so many testomonies of him and the truth. I believe he is there. No scratch that, I KNOW he is there. I know he lived and I know he is watching us. He loves us no matter what.

So yes he is real I know it for sure. I’m a teenager and I am lost and scared and I don’t know a lot. But what I do know is he is there!

The wind can be proven by examining the movement of air from High to Low areas of pressure. God cannot be proven, and has no evidence for his existence. And there were also once many testimonies that once you reached a certain point on the Earth you would fall off. Does that make the Earth flat? Sure, maybe you prayed once and got comforted, but that was what religion was invented for, comfort. Just because you prayed and got happy doesn’t make God real. I could watch Sponge Bob Squarepants and laugh and get happy, does that mean that there is really a talking sea sponge wearing pants? No.

Can you taste the wind? Tell me what does the wind taste like?? Can you touch the wind?? Tell me what does wind feel like?? These things are complicated and hard to explain. same as god. I have evidence I have plenty of evidence. Even though some people do not believe they are still being blessed by him. Check out lds.org check out the stories and you will see that he is real. There are different types of pleasure. The pleasure you feel when you are blessed is incredible. It’s hard to explain and once you feel it you understand.

You can have all the stories in the world and it doesn’t make something true. The wind CAN be felt by the heat it removes from the skin. Not to mention that it PHYSICALLY moves other objects. See, not so complicated or hard to explain.

Mmmm I see. I can feel him when he is near and he is helping me out. He can move objects wether it be to show you a sign or for some other reason. Seems as though I have some proof here to just like your wind proof.

Arthur McReed wrote:
5 reasons for believing God is merely a fabricated work of fiction.

1)One cannot smell God.
2)One cannot hear God.
3)One cannot see God.
4)One cannot taste God.
5)One cannot touch God.

Watch out, say that and they bring up The WIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oooooooh, because the movement of air is the ultimate argument for Santa’s, I mean God’s existence.

Alhoo wrote:
Wind is the movement of molecules, isn’t it.

Yes.

misunderstood4 wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:

jamesmccrore wrote:
God’s existence can’t be proven or disproven. I am christian and I have faith that God is real.

Faith is an irrational belief meant to make people “feel” better.

misunderstood4 wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:

misunderstood4 wrote:
I am LDS and I strongly believe he is there.

Those of you who say, “Well you can’t see him!” Well can you see the wind? NO you can’t! But you know it is there just like God. We can feel him and we have the knowledge like common sense. He is there making miracles. I remember one time as I cried in my bed I prayed to be comforted and suddenly I got this warm feeling and I was calm. There are so many testomonies of him and the truth. I believe he is there. No scratch that, I KNOW he is there. I know he lived and I know he is watching us. He loves us no matter what.

So yes he is real I know it for sure. I’m a teenager and I am lost and scared and I don’t know a lot. But what I do know is he is there!

The wind can be proven by examining the movement of air from High to Low areas of pressure. God cannot be proven, and has no evidence for his existence. And there were also once many testimonies that once you reached a certain point on the Earth you would fall off. Does that make the Earth flat? Sure, maybe you prayed once and got comforted, but that was what religion was invented for, comfort. Just because you prayed and got happy doesn’t make God real. I could watch Sponge Bob Squarepants and laugh and get happy, does that mean that there is really a talking sea sponge wearing pants? No.

Can you taste the wind? Tell me what does the wind taste like?? Can you touch the wind?? Tell me what does wind feel like?? These things are complicated and hard to explain. same as god. I have evidence I have plenty of evidence. Even though some people do not believe they are still being blessed by him. Check out lds.org check out the stories and you will see that he is real. There are different types of pleasure. The pleasure you feel when you are blessed is incredible. It’s hard to explain and once you feel it you understand.

You can have all the stories in the world and it doesn’t make something true. The wind CAN be felt by the heat it removes from the skin. Not to mention that it PHYSICALLY moves other objects. See, not so complicated or hard to explain.

Mmmm I see. I can feel him when he is near and he is helping me out. He can move objects wether it be to show you a sign or for some other reason. Seems as though I have some proof here to just like your wind proof.

But he does not PHYSICALLY manifest himself.

Asserting the claim that God is associated with the wind is unfounded and quite laughable to say the least.

There is no such thing as cold. Just an abscence of heat. There is no such thing as evil. Just an abscence of God. He is there I can tell you that. I don’t need to keep on explaining because I am a daughter of him and I believe. I didn’t plan on arguing so much I just wanted to bare my testomonie to this person. So they can make a decision for themself.

When you feel alone he is there. No matter what people tell you no matter who brings you down he is there. He is ready to help you he has open arms. He loves you he cares for you. It is not that difficult to realize. I don’t need to keep on going sciency proof on it. It is what you feel and know for yourself. We know he is there because we can feel him. We don’t need evidence. Seeing is not always believing. It’s call faith and no matter what science says!! If you ever get the time google the phrase, “No such thing as evil just an abscence of god.” Some stories should pop up all the same. Read it I know you will love it..

misunderstood4 wrote:
There is no such thing as cold. Just an abscence of heat. There is no such thing as evil. Just an abscence of God. He is there I can tell you that. I don’t need to keep on explaining because I am a daughter of him and I believe. I didn’t plan on arguing so much I just wanted to bare my testomonie to this person. So they can make a decision for themself.

When you feel alone he is there. No matter what people tell you no matter who brings you down he is there. He is ready to help you he has open arms. He loves you he cares for you. It is not that difficult to realize. I don’t need to keep on going sciency proof on it. It is what you feel and know for yourself. We know he is there because we can feel him. We don’t need evidence. Seeing is not always believing. It’s call faith and no matter what science says!! If you ever get the time google the phrase, “No such thing as evil just an abscence of god.” Some stories should pop up all the same. Read it I know you will love it..

Yes, of course, because what you FEEL is the most important thing, facts mean Nothing. And why, when I fight with reason, do religious people give me charming anecdotes?

Cold and hot… It depends on our perception of movement speed of molecules if I remember right.

Alhoo wrote:
Cold and hot… It depends on our perception of movement speed of molecules if I remember right.

It does.

So who has the better imaginary friend?

Alhoo wrote:
So who has the better imaginary friend?

ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He lives in the sky and does whatever I think to him. The only catch is that I half to sacrifice my life to him and worship him forever. His name’s Fred.

Alhoo wrote:
So who has the better imaginary friend?

You mean who is fraught with more insanity?

There is no evidence for god,here is as much evidence for god as there is for the flying spaghetti monster, or the invisible pink unicorn. And personally, I see no reason to beleive in a god.

define “god”….. and while you’re at it you might as well define “real” too

I believe in Him

This is interesting how it goes people, but why argue about it?
God will open the eyes of them that He wishes to. You cant explain to anyone the Gospel and convert them without God doing the work. :P Neither if your seeking God can you go to a person not knowing any God, cause you will only get one kind of answer (in 100 different ways.)

Hes as real as anything else.But thats just because people create EVERYTHING to fill their needs. if u think u need faith, i think u only need internet access , in order to talk to god.. http://www.titane.ca/concordia/dfar25…

Since the moderators don’t like me giving my opinion I will say this. Honestly look around you… Could nothingness have been made into what the Universe is today? It doesn’t have to make sense, you just have to have faith in him.

tell me what you mean by “god”, and I’ll tell you if it’s real.

The cosmos, the warm feeling you get from being in a group or looking into a sunset or child’s face, the ideal, the infinite, the as yet unknown…

real.

Magical monotheistic figurehead of a religion that created the world as described in religious texts, omnipotent, omnipresent, effecting shared reality, personal relationship with and all loving parental replacement…

not real.

Then again, all reality that you can experience gets formulated in your own mind, so if you think it’s real, then it might as well be - just don’t teach my kids or fly my plane.

chunkymove wrote:
tell me what you mean by “god”, and I’ll tell you if it’s real.

The cosmos, the warm feeling you get from being in a group or looking into a sunset or child’s face, the ideal, the infinite, the as yet unknown…

real.

Magical monotheistic figurehead of a religion that created the world as described in religious texts, omnipotent, omnipresent, effecting shared reality, personal relationship with and all loving parental replacement…

not real.

Then again, all reality that you can experience gets formulated in your own mind, so if you think it’s real, then it might as well be - just don’t teach my kids or fly my plane.

Let me ask you a question. Does it make sense that there were all of this energy in space that out of nowhere just created the universe? Where did they come from? How did they tell themselves to create this universe? That is just simply a theory… (An untrue one) Without the guidance of something they wouldn’t have done anything. They wouldn’t even exist.

TheLordIsMyShepherd wrote:
Let me ask you a question. Does it make sense that there were all of this energy in space that out of nowhere just created the universe? Where did they come from? How did they tell themselves to create this universe? That is just simply a theory… (An untrue one) Without the guidance of something they wouldn’t have done anything. They wouldn’t even exist.

There are explanations to many things along these lines that I understand. There are explanations of things along these lines that I don’t understand, but that are understood by people I have good reason to think are both smarted and more commited to the area. There are many things that no one understands yet, and may never understand, and may not even be understandable.

The bit I don’t get, is that just because I don’t have an explanation for everything, I am meant to feel somehow ashamed or something, and cower into accepting something that is clearly not fitting with everything else I can understand.

I have a quite an extensive understanding, for a layman, of the topic you raise, and would be more than willing to share it with you if I though you wanted to hear it.

Summery.
What is the connection between the first cause/order argument, and the figurehead of a 2000 year old cultural control system?

Summery of the summery?
“I don’t know everything, so god is real” seems strange to me. Can you not be comfortable with “I don’t know”? Serious question.

I HOPE HE IS REAL

BaconByAnyOtherName wrote:
Interestingly enough, I got bored and found this:

http://www.yhwh.com/GINGN/gingn.htm

even if you dont believe in it, the insights into the faith are kind of cool.

interesting link.

it claims “God’s Real name is the same for all people everywhere. It matters not at all which religion or cultural heritage you are from!”

then latter goes on to say “Judeo-Christian-Islamic religious/cultural tradition” “as clear and powerful as the Name that He spoke to Mose”

fail. But still a good read.

satan is a idea borrowed from babylonian religions. oh, and, btw, in christian theology Satan is god’s second in command, before satan trie to take over. satan’s only sin, as such, was the belief that he was better. If you really want to talk about stuff like this, read up some, eh?
I suggest Paradise Lost by Milton, and perhaps Dante’s Inferno.
And stop trying to rationalise beleif, seriously. the idea of faith is that it -is- irrational.

BaconByAnyOtherName wrote:
If it can not be created, where did it come from?

http://www.yhwh.com/GINGN/gingn.htm

the summery of this religious view is that god means you.
The self awareness, the “I am”-ness,
the Popeye the sailorman not looking to others to define himself,
I am just me and if you don’t like it that your problem,

Doesn’t fit with the rest of the religious texts, but is cool. Like Dumbo realizing his magic feather isn’t, a child outgrown of the need for parental approval.

It’s good to be king
:-)

Wow, this thread is out of control. I will pray to Athios, and beseech him to bless us… or punish us… all so that the true creator (of this thread) gets the answer he or she has searched for. Seriously… Someone already said this, but how is the internet going to answer that question? I googled the zeitgeist movie once, I watched both of them. Although I think a lot of it is just propaganda, I really do think religion is a method of control. Honestly, I think there is more to brotherhood than Christianity. We are all the same specie. Or whatever term would suit that better :P

So energy was always there. Since approximately 14 billions years ago. They say god knows.

“My” holy text? Not really. The holy texts I’ve been taught have been highly indescriptive of what that God is like.

The devil and god is raging inside me.

I have never ‘felt’ god. Common sense dictates that god does not exist. Thus, I do not believe in god.

If I had a subjective ‘experience of god’ I would admit the possibility that god exists, but could not be certain.

To believe in god I would need a logical/rational explanation of god.

If god is unknowable and/or beyond human comprehension… then I cannot believe in god.

There are a great many things that are unknowable and beyond our comprehension, most of these things are unknowable because they do not actually exist. Alchemy, magic, ley-lines, chemtrails, cattle-snatching aliens, the Loch Ness monster… these things are unknowable because they do not exist.

If I were to accept the existence of god, even though there is no logical or rational explanation for god as he is unknowable, then I would also have to accept all of the things listed above that do not exist.

If I were to only accept god and reject the others, it would be by blind faith, not by understanding or true belief. Blind faith can be placed in anything without being more or less correct than any other thing. I could blindly have faith that Augustus Caesar was a god, and that through honoring his memory and message I can achieve immortality… there is no difference between this and god.

Now chemistry, physics, mathematics… these can be rationally and logically explained, thus I can believe in these things without the use of faith. I can believe in chemistry and reject alchemy without the use of preferential ignorance as one is rational and the other is fantasy.

BaconByAnyOtherName wrote:
I look upon you all, and I see a classroom full of ignorant children blindly insulting faiths as they act as atheists to impress their friends. The only people whom I have seen show evidence of rational debate are American Athiest and chunkymove. Perhaps instead of cowering behind insults, you might use your reason.

I take offense to that. I believe I showed evidence BEFORE I started insulting people.

long post is long

BaconByAnyOtherName wrote:

its a person!! wrote:
define “god”….. and while you’re at it you might as well define “real” too

God, N.

A being of immense cosmic power purportedly responsible for the creation of all that exists.

Real, Adj.

Something that exists within the confines of reality as a physical object.

That definition of real is flawed in its use of the word reality….or maybe i shouldnt have asked for the definition of real but of reality itself. Which is probably a bit too much too ask for since philosophers are still trying to figure that one out. I mean what is one person’s reality is not necessarily another’s. Emotions, feelings etc. They are all real, even though they are not physical objects. And if God is the thing that sparks these emotions is he not in a way real too? A dream exists, so do stories and imaginings, and these things can have an effect on humanity that most physical objects do not. But maybe I’m getting s bit too philosophical. Scientifically speaking God does not exist…well at least that definition of god as a creator doesn’t (Like chunkymove said)

BaconByAnyOtherName wrote:
I look upon you all, and I see a classroom full of ignorant children blindly insulting faiths as they act as atheists to impress their friends. The only people whom I have seen show evidence of rational debate are American Athiest and chunkymove. Perhaps instead of cowering behind insults, you might use your reason.

Also the whole “looking upon us all” comes across as a bit high and mighty, just saying:)

its a person!! wrote:
I mean what is one person’s reality is not necessarily another’s. Emotions, feelings etc.

That’s false, Neuroscience can now find and prove emotions. Therefore they now have to be real to everyone.

flipped_philosopher wrote:

its a person!! wrote:
I mean what is one person’s reality is not necessarily another’s. Emotions, feelings etc.

That’s false, Neuroscience can now find and prove emotions. Therefore they now have to be real to everyone.

How does one prove an emotion out of curiousity? And what I mean is people can go through life viewing things completely differently. Like a crazy person who truly believes he is, say, napoleon. To him that is his reality and it will shape his actions etc. There is no one right way to view the world. Of course emotions are real to everyone, but the range of emotions experienced vary from person to person and the same situation can affect different people in drastically different ways.

Quantum is really working.The more you think you know,the less you know.The closer you think you are to the Truth,the further away you are.The never Ending Story….

its a person!! wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:

its a person!! wrote:
I mean what is one person’s reality is not necessarily another’s. Emotions, feelings etc.

That’s false, Neuroscience can now find and prove emotions. Therefore they now have to be real to everyone.

How does one prove an emotion out of curiousity? And what I mean is people can go through life viewing things completely differently. Like a crazy person who truly believes he is, say, napoleon. To him that is his reality and it will shape his actions etc. There is no one right way to view the world. Of course emotions are real to everyone, but the range of emotions experienced vary from person to person and the same situation can affect different people in drastically different ways.

You’re speaking of SUBJECTIVE reality while I’m talking of OBJECTIVE. Get with the program.

flipped_philosopher wrote:

its a person!! wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:

its a person!! wrote:
I mean what is one person’s reality is not necessarily another’s. Emotions, feelings etc.

That’s false, Neuroscience can now find and prove emotions. Therefore they now have to be real to everyone.

How does one prove an emotion out of curiousity? And what I mean is people can go through life viewing things completely differently. Like a crazy person who truly believes he is, say, napoleon. To him that is his reality and it will shape his actions etc. There is no one right way to view the world. Of course emotions are real to everyone, but the range of emotions experienced vary from person to person and the same situation can affect different people in drastically different ways.

You’re speaking of SUBJECTIVE reality while I’m talking of OBJECTIVE. Get with the program.

Okay calm down, no need to capitalize!! How can you talk of subjective without talking of objective and visa versa. Nothing will ever be entirely objective, as to be human is to be subjective. Even science is more subjective than objective. The meaning of the very word objective is subjective. And anywho why is subjective reality any less relevant than objective reality (if we can ever appreciate what objective reality is). For humans objectivity is just subjectivity on a large scale.

BaconByAnyOtherName wrote:

I have a problem with it. I find the fact that modern science has simply given up trying to find the origins to be insufficient proof for eternal existence.

you want proof? why? You can’t prove yesterday existed, but it’s a nice way of explaining the current situation. Before the big bang is hard to fathom, as it’s so far removed from our present existence, but I’m sure lots of people are thinking about it.

flipped_philosopher wrote:

You’re speaking of SUBJECTIVE reality while I’m talking of OBJECTIVE. Get with the program.

objective reality? you really putting that out there as your stance?

BaconByAnyOtherName wrote:
Touching a hot stove will always produce the same basic results. You may be able to completely ignore the pain, but the energy produced from the stovetop will transfer rapidly to your hand in the form of heat, and cause damage. This is reality, and no amount of psychosis can alter it.

Your example seems to be going with this definition of reality…
“that which if you ignore will kill you”
If a theist believes in life after death, with all the virgins and harps, it makes it harder to find any common ground which is required for a discussion. You need enough in common to communicate, and enough not in common to make that communication worthwhile.
Also, if they are about to burn you at the stake due to your hearsy, then god becomes real to you?

This conversation reminds me of the first part of this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E-_Dd…

BaconByAnyOtherName wrote:
But where did all of the mass and energy come before the big bang? According to the theory, all that now exists was condensed to the size of an atom. But it was still there. Where was it before that?

Okay, nobel prize here I come:

1) Gravity is a measure of force between two or more masses
2) Gravity only exists insofar as it is a force between two masses
3) If there is one and only one mass, there is no force between it and anything else
4) If there is only one mass, there is no gravity

1) Mass attracts all other mass and is attracted by all other mass through gravity
2) Mass combines
3) More mass = more gravitational force
4) Combining masses attract more mass faster as they have more gravitational force
5) With enough mass/gravitational force, the mass can attract light
6) Large/dense masses that attract light are called black holes
7) Black holes attract other mass, including other black holes with great strength
8) Black holes combine masses including other black holes to themselves
9) Over a long enough timeline, all mass will combine into one point

As per the guidelines above, once there is only one point of mass, there is no gravitational force between that mass and any other mass. Thus, there is no gravitational force. As the gravitational force was all that held the mass together… it violently explodes as it contains all matter/energy in the universe compacted into a mega-dense point.

To illustrate, think of a pressure differential. Lets say you suck the air out of a bottle a little bit and then stick your tonge in it. The bottle sticks to your tongue and your tonge sticks to the bottle. So long as there is a difference in pressure between the inside of the bottle and the outside of the bottle, it sticks. Once you make both pressures equal, no more sticking. Poke a hole in the bottle and you are no longer modelling physics, you are making out with an unwilling bottle. The force depends upon the disparity. Just like gravity depends upon the disparity between two objects in terms of their mass and distance. Once the mass and distance have become identical (meaning that they share mass as one larger mass, because there is no distance between them)… no more force… and BIG BANG.

Everything accelerates away from the center, cools, combines, electricty and inorganic compounds organize psuedo-organics (inorganic amino acids), once these arrange themselves hydrophobically and hydrophylically you have a membrane, the membrane presereves the ‘template’, the template cannibalizes other membranes as it is more fit, organic compounds result, life evolves, something more or less like us starts wondering about the universe, the universe keeps accelerating and cooling, matter starts clustering as energy dissapates, life dies for lack of concentrated energy (mirroring the increasing concentration of mass), mass attracts mass, new big bang, repeat ad naseum.

U.S. Atheist wrote:
Best calculations actually indicate that the universe is naturally going to expand forever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate…

umm it expands and contracts, dont ever quote wikipedia…

@Abstract?? I would like recent citations from an astrophysicist in a peer reviewed journal that supports that. To my knowledge the scientific community on whole does not support the idea that the universe will contract.

ScienceRob wrote:
@Abstract?? I would like recent citations from an astrophysicist in a peer reviewed journal that supports that. To my knowledge the scientific community on whole does not support the idea that the universe will contract.

yeah let me see if I can find something might take a while though, my uncle is the expert on these things ill ask him where to find some sources

No it only expands like from a small Circle in to a bigger Circle into an even bigger circle, endless.We can”t fathom unless it hits resistance of some unknown kind and than it might change to something unknown.Its like our Sun will burn itself out one day ,but before that my Friends, there is not one Human on this Planet.This Includes Jesus, Mohamed and all the Rest of Gods and Prophets…

Abstract?? wrote:

yeah let me see if I can find something might take a while though, my uncle is the expert on these things ill ask him where to find some sources

Awesome, hope you do. Even though kindly explaining to people over and over again that santa clause isn’t real feels like I am improving the world, an actual conversation about astrophysics is far more interesting.

Form what I’ve read, I have the same basic idea as USAthiest. The idea of expand and contract fit intuitively with humans, like breathing in and out, but continuousness expansion seems more likely. I stone dropped in a ponds sends out ripples that don’t come back.

guys, we don’t know whether or not our universe will expand forever or contract later. Yes, there is antimatter, but that may not be the only cause. We don’t know if there is an elasticity point or something, billions of years from now, that will cause the universe to contract. Or it could already be contracting - we are looking at events millions, if not billions, of years ago. Our knowledge of bodies outside our solar system is current as of a few millennia ago.
The current expansion could possibly be because of interactions with other universes though, we don’t know.

U.S. Atheist wrote:
If you have to observe everywhere for all time to know something then you know nothing, so I shouldn’t listen to you.

bam!

who is that a response to?
Anyway, some things we really do have no way of knowing until it happens. We can infer from the events of other stars that our sun could explode, and we can have a rough timeline, but until we see it explode, we don’t know for certain. yay for quantum physics?
Doesn’t mean I am a theist, I have no need for some godhead to tell me right and wrong. Definitely an atheist.
Plus we have first hand evidence that supports the idea that the sun will explode, but no first hand evidence of god!

http://www.physics.princeton.edu/~ste…

Cyclic Universe, no eternal expansion and no Big Freeze :)

Perhaps…. The sun is god ??? And the stairway to heaven is NASA. And the messiah is a fearless space traveler who communicates with the sun, which is also heaven. When we die, after the rapture, our souls ascend to the sun. And the sinners remain on earth, which will burn when gravity finally pulls it close enough to the sun. And the stars are angels, and the milky way is the pearly gates, and uranus is Gabriel….

tealogicdeathappl wrote:
Perhaps…. The sun is god ??? And the stairway to heaven is NASA. And the messiah is a fearless space traveler who communicates with the sun, which is also heaven. When we die, after the rapture, our souls ascend to the sun. And the sinners remain on earth, which will burn when gravity finally pulls it close enough to the sun. And the stars are angels, and the milky way is the pearly gates, and uranus is Gabriel….

No, the sun is the sun. NASA is the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. The messiah is the “anointed one” by the Jewish deity. The sun is not heaven either, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun - it has characteristics similar to the the “hell” introduced in the Christian church in the dark ages.
Souls are an idea, a concept, or in some frameworks, a spiritual entity - they do not have physical substance that would need a physical destination such as the sun.
The earth will burn up not due to gravity pulling it in, but buy the sun getting hotter in it’s old age.
“The stars are angels”, and Gabriel is an angel, so why would he be the planet neptune? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune
Neptune was name after a Roman god anyway.
Oh, and stars aren’t angels.

Just thought I’d help clear that up for you. :-)

If you are interested in the naming of things, then you might be interested to know that big celestial bodies *are* often named after mythos, but usually due to there being a similarity.
Planet is greek for wanderer or traveler, as they move differently across the sky then the rest of the stars.

Urggghh, i’ve been beaten.

tealogicdeathappl wrote:
URGGGHH, I’ve been beaten.

I presumed you were playing right? Trying to mediate an answer both theists and atheists wouldn’t mind?

I’ve seen it many times, people giving the name god to something that already has a good and accepted name. I think if he wants universal credit and love, he at least has to do better than that.

Schroedinger’s Cat isn’t interesting. You can’t whether it’s alive or not. I don’t like dead cats!

chunkymove wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:

You’re speaking of SUBJECTIVE reality while I’m talking of OBJECTIVE. Get with the program.

objective reality? you really putting that out there as your stance?

Things exist whether we are here to observe them or not. I’m speaking of everything quantifiable when I speak of objective reality. And I only used the all caps because this editor doesn’t have italics.

BaconByAnyOtherName wrote:

U.S. Atheist wrote:
I don’t think so. I’m not well versed in quantum physics but nothing I’ve read states or proves that things can be true and false at the same time.

I’ve heard of quantum superposition, but that isn’t true and false at the same time. It is something different.

Quantum superposition is data that describes the possible - let me emphasize possible - states of a system.

This metric is needed because of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. Basically when certain sets of properties of a system are simultaneously measured the more accurately one property of the set is measured the less accurately the other property can be measured.

As an example, one such set of properties is the position and the velocity of subatomic particles such as electrons.

Since at least one of the measurements is going to have some degree of inaccuracy, the best way to represent the possible values of the inaccurate measurements are with superposition.

That doesn’t mean that the particle was moving at all the velocities in the possible velocity set or that it had the position of all the positions in the possible position set. Only that it had one of the possible positions and one of the possible velocities at the time it was measured.

So no. So far things are not true and false simultaneously.

So the first law of thermodynamics still stands.

Are you familiar with Schroedinger’s Cat?

Schrödinger’s Cat was introduced merely to show how ridiculous the Copenhagen theory of quantum mechanics was.

BaconByAnyOtherName wrote:

U.S. Atheist wrote:
Scientists have not stopped studying cosmological development and composition.

In fact recent experiments with the Large Hadron Collider aim to gather more data about subatomic particles and energy.

The idea that the universe has existed forever and that the universe has not existed forever are mutually exclusive. The both can’t be true. In that vein the first law of thermodynamics says that energy cannot be created or destroyed. If that holds true then energy has always existed in some form which means that the universe was not created.

Both can be true. Quantum physics says things can simultaneously exist and not exist, so why are they exclusive of each other? You are thinking with practical logic. Not quantum logic.

By the now mostly accepted string theory, while things both exist and don’t exist they do so in parallel universes. While this does take a small leap of faith to believe in, the recent “discovery” of magnetic monopoles provide a larger amount of proof for string theory than for God.

blarghwhargah wrote:
guys, we don’t know whether or not our universe will expand forever or contract later. Yes, there is antimatter, but that may not be the only cause. We don’t know if there is an elasticity point or something, billions of years from now, that will cause the universe to contract. Or it could already be contracting - we are looking at events millions, if not billions, of years ago. Our knowledge of bodies outside our solar system is current as of a few millennia ago.
The current expansion could possibly be because of interactions with other universes though, we don’t know.

Antimatter isn’t necessary if you disregard the Copernicus Theory and simply assume that we are in a space of relative cosmic emptiness.

its a person!! wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:

its a person!! wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:

its a person!! wrote:
I mean what is one person’s reality is not necessarily another’s. Emotions, feelings etc.

That’s false, Neuroscience can now find and prove emotions. Therefore they now have to be real to everyone.

How does one prove an emotion out of curiousity? And what I mean is people can go through life viewing things completely differently. Like a crazy person who truly believes he is, say, napoleon. To him that is his reality and it will shape his actions etc. There is no one right way to view the world. Of course emotions are real to everyone, but the range of emotions experienced vary from person to person and the same situation can affect different people in drastically different ways.

You’re speaking of SUBJECTIVE reality while I’m talking of OBJECTIVE. Get with the program.

Okay calm down, no need to capitalize!! How can you talk of subjective without talking of objective and visa versa. Nothing will ever be entirely objective, as to be human is to be subjective. Even science is more subjective than objective. The meaning of the very word objective is subjective. And anywho why is subjective reality any less relevant than objective reality (if we can ever appreciate what objective reality is). For humans objectivity is just subjectivity on a large scale.

And just what branch of science is more subjective than objective? All current theories have been tested through unsubjectivated tests.

Objective adj.: not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased

Subjective adj.: existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought

Dictionary.com

Subjective reality is less relevant than objective reality because subjective can be changed at any time by any person while objective exists outside of personal tampering.

flipped_philosopher wrote:

its a person!! wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:

its a person!! wrote:

flipped_philosopher wrote:

its a person!! wrote:
I mean what is one person’s reality is not necessarily another’s. Emotions, feelings etc.

That’s false, Neuroscience can now find and prove emotions. Therefore they now have to be real to everyone.

How does one prove an emotion out of curiousity? And what I mean is people can go through life viewing things completely differently. Like a crazy person who truly believes he is, say, napoleon. To him that is his reality and it will shape his actions etc. There is no one right way to view the world. Of course emotions are real to everyone, but the range of emotions experienced vary from person to person and the same situation can affect different people in drastically different ways.

You’re speaking of SUBJECTIVE reality while I’m talking of OBJECTIVE. Get with the program.

Okay calm down, no need to capitalize!! How can you talk of subjective without talking of objective and visa versa. Nothing will ever be entirely objective, as to be human is to be subjective. Even science is more subjective than objective. The meaning of the very word objective is subjective. And anywho why is subjective reality any less relevant than objective reality (if we can ever appreciate what objective reality is). For humans objectivity is just subjectivity on a large scale.

And just what branch of science is more subjective than objective? All current theories have been tested through unsubjectivated tests.

Objective adj.: not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased

Subjective adj.: existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought

Dictionary.com

Subjective reality is less relevant than objective reality because subjective can be changed at any time by any person while objective exists outside of personal tampering.

But the thing is we will never be free to observe anything outside of our own mind. We are fully dependant on our five senses and how our brain subconciously interprets them. To think that we could ever be fully (or even mostly) objective is naive. Which leads me to my point that objectivity and subjectivity are a balance and must always be considered together…. and are in that way equally relevant. Total objectivity will never be possible in any situation (not just science). The only thing we can be totally objective about is our own personal existance.

I’m actually studying genetics and I accepted years ago that all science and experimenting is an uphill, mostly losing battle, trying you’re hardest to be objective. And yes there are many ways to get more unbiased results… replicating experiments, using defined measurments, controls, all that ****. But these methods and measurements are ultimately built on a foundation of human (subjective) ideas. The measurements are catered towards the human senses, the results are interpreted by humans and therefore skewed to fit in with our version of reality (based on our five senses and our livng in a 3D world). Unsubjectivated tests dont really exist….they should be called as unsubjective as possible tests. If the test was thought up and carried out by a human, its gonna be subjective.

Anyway i’ve completely digressed and got caught up in all this subjective/objective nonesense. My original point was that subjective reality is just as relevant as objective reality. All humans live in their own subjective reality their whole lives, so how could it be any less important. When I asked for the definition of real I just wanted to draw attention to that. The very fact subjective reality uses the word reality is testament to that. Also asked for the definition of god because god means a lot of different things to different people. Hehe i like how you defined two things that philosophers having been debating for eons with two sentences.
Sorry for rambling, i get very caught up in thoughts like these and do like arguing for arguments sake!

My evaluation of it is that God is a concept, a symbol.

Think of Justice, or Freedom, or Truth, or Beauty. Certainly Justice exists, certainly Freedom, and Truth, and Beauty exist… but they are concepts/symbols, they have no concrete physical existence. We can only point out those objects that we feel reflect some aspect of the ideal.

We may see an example of Justice, but this isn’t Justice incarnate, it is only a reflection of the ideal. Justice as a whole unified perfect thing does not exist. It is merely a word we use to represent this ideal thing.

I should think that God is much the same. God does not exist in the same way that you or I or a rock do, but God exists as an ideal, a symbol for what is good and right. You could stop using the word God, and substitute it with ‘the Light’ or ‘the Right’ and it would represent much the same thing, and exist only insofar as we see aspects of it around us.

well, the fact is that if you believe in the big bang then the universe must contract infinitely until it is forced to expand again…idk just makes sense to me. still havent asked my uncle about it yet

Well, I don’t believe in Satan. Sometimes I view “Satan” as a cop-out for mistakes and greediness. So now I can’t blame my greediness and foolish errors on anyone………….. So maybe I’ll try to blame television. **** LIBERAL-CONSERVATIVES TRYING TO BAN OPPOSITE SEX MARRIAGE AND GIVE TERMINAL PATIENTS BRAIN DAMAGE WITH MARIJUANA CIGARETTE ADDICTIONS!!!

But seriously… Is it true that some politicians use their “Religiousness” to apeal to religious demographics? I mean, it was surely true in yester-years, but doesn’t it still happen?

…i would say if the patient is TERMINAL, neither brain damage nor a long term addiction are going to be their biggest concerns….marijuana is a painkiller.

courtybubble wrote:
…i would say if the patient is TERMINAL, neither brain damage nor a long term addiction are going to be their biggest concerns….marijuana is a painkiller.

Agreed, but that was not the serious part. Do people say Satan is behind their mistakes to avoid owning up to them? Sure, not in the business world, but you know what I mean.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/z…

They sure do, heck they even try and sue God for breach of contract for letting Satan make them do it!

Coalesce wrote:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/z…

They sure do, heck they even try and sue God for breach of contract for letting Satan make them do it!

Why not sue Satan? Cus he knows legal defence?

Crazy Cat Lord. wrote:

Coalesce wrote:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/z…

They sure do, heck they even try and sue God for breach of contract for letting Satan make them do it!

Why not sue Satan? Cus he knows legal defence?

Because Satan never made a contract with the defendant, whereas upon baptism there was perceived to be a written contract (the bible) between the defendant and god that as a member of god’s flock he would be protected from the influences of Satan. As the defendant had committed a crime based upon a sinful act, and based upon the text of the contract (bible) stating that sins were sourced from the influence of Satan, it was proposed that god had committed a breach of contract by failing to protect the defendant from Satan’s influence, thus allowing the defendant to sin.

Satan is just another imaginary… well not friend but foe. One to blame for all of your mistakes. It’s so good and easy to have such a person who you can blame for almost everything!

Where does the bible state that god is responsible for preventing humans from sinning?

Crazy Cat Lord. wrote:
Where does the bible state that god is responsible for preventing humans from sinning?

What does the bible state he is responsible for?
Flood, sodom and gomorrah annihilation, letting Job’s family get killed.
Death.
Creating giving light and life to a formless planet.
Life.

If you are talking about about the contracts…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_(biblical)
Nothing there on a personal level, it’s all about state, and not even a mention of Satan. I think the guy should have focused on suing the baptism providers, like someone who sells you a lucky charm that doesn’t work. If they claim claim it’s to do with free will, hopefully a little logical consequential thinking should then make him realise that if he has free will, then God and Satan disappear.

Sure he’s still in jail, but at least his mind will finally be free from incarceration.

Coalesce wrote:

Crazy Cat Lord. wrote:

Coalesce wrote:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/z…

They sure do, heck they even try and sue God for breach of contract for letting Satan make them do it!

Why not sue Satan? Cus he knows legal defence?

Because Satan never made a contract with the defendant, whereas upon baptism there was perceived to be a written contract (the bible) between the defendant and god that as a member of god’s flock he would be protected from the influences of Satan. As the defendant had committed a crime based upon a sinful act, and based upon the text of the contract (bible) stating that sins were sourced from the influence of Satan, it was proposed that god had committed a breach of contract by failing to protect the defendant from Satan’s influence, thus allowing the defendant to sin.

WOW, you nailed it! I keep thinking of the movie “The Devil’s Advocate” now, lol

Coalesce wrote:

Because Satan never made a contract with the defendant, whereas upon baptism there was perceived to be a written contract (the bible) between the defendant and god that as a member of god’s flock he would be protected from the influences of Satan.

First, contracts require consideration - that’s legal speak for giving something in return.
Second, he clearly didn’t read the contract, as it doesn’t say that at all, and it says lots of other scary things.
He made a contract based on the verbal description given to him by the church representatives, and these could be seen as binding. I still say take it up with these people.

He gave his soul and eternal worship to god. I think an eternity of voluntary servitude is an item of worth. In fact taken at a labor rate of any value an eternity of free labor would be worth an infinite value. I think that for legal purposes this might well be considered a fair value free market exchange for eternal life.

We contract to serve god eternally, and in return god grants eternal life.

“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.” (John 10:28-29)
“Call upon Me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you will honor Me.” (Psalm 50:15)

Well… Satan snatched this dude away.

The LORD has kept the promise He made… (1 Kings 8:20)
…The LORD is faithful to all His promises and loving toward all He has made. (Psalm 145:13)
Let us hold unswerving to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. (Hebrews 10:23)

God makes committment through his works (read: the Gospel) which professes in what can be construed a written contract that he will abide by his promise.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade — kept in heaven for you. (2 Peter 1:3-4)

This new hope can be constructed as a covenant, or guarantee of inheritance.

No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, He will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. (1 Corinthians 10:13)
…God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.” (Hebrews 13:5)

God allowed this man to succumb to the temptation of sin despite the promise above.

Romans 6:3-5
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
Mark 16:15-16
And he said unto them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, and he that disbelieves shall be condemned.

The man had been sealed into the covenant of baptism, thus marking his voluntary and knowledgeable entry into the contract.

I’m not saying the guy isn’t a complete and total loon, and I don’t believe that anyone should ever be let off the hook because of god or satan… but keep in mind that this means that we need to consider the actions of individuals whether or not they believe that god sanctioned them, or that the devil infiltrated them. Abraham attempted to murder his son, doesn’t matter if ‘god made him do it’. That’s attempted murder and should be condemned.

Just like Lot sleeping with his daughters, after trying to throw them out to the crowd to be raped to death and torn to peices. Just like Abraham sleeping with his daughter (not knowing it was her, thinking her a random whore), condemning her to death for whoring (not knowing it was his daughter), and then changing his mind once he realizes that the whore that he condemned to death after sleeping with her was his daughter. Just like the preacher that prays to god for vengeance, after which she-bears from the wilderness come into town and eat several of the town’s children because 1 or 2 had made fun of the preacher for having a bald head.

chunkymove wrote:

Crazy Cat Lord. wrote:
Where does the bible state that god is responsible for preventing humans from sinning?

What does the bible state he is responsible for?
Flood, sodom and gomorrah annihilation, letting Job’s family get killed.
Death.

Based on that I would say that GOD is the evil one, not Satan. That’s why I pray to the flying spaghetti monster.

Oh, and just a plain question, I’m honestly NOT trying to be mean or insulting, just something that’s always confused me. If your God is omnipotent (all powerful), then why does he need your praise and worship? It just feels like if she’s so powerful it wouldn’t need people to tell him she’s so great.

flipped_philosopher wrote:
Oh, and just a plain question, I’m honestly NOT trying to be mean or insulting, just something that’s always confused me. If your God is omnipotent (all powerful), then why does he need your praise and worship? It just feels like if she’s so powerful it wouldn’t need people to tell him she’s so great.

You claim to not be insulting, but you are clearly phrasing it with all gender pronouns to try and reduce it ridiculousness. Sure, I was doing the same with my contract stuff, but I didn’t have a disarming opening.

Coalesce wrote:
He gave his soul and eternal worship to god. I think an eternity of voluntary servitude is an item of worth…

Bam, fair play to you. I think the dude is a loon also, but you have clearly constructed his case for thinking god let him down.