god help: Where is the proof for god? - Help.com

The fact that the world is made, and that you are alive and living, and all the good things in the world.

uh, yes it is

That is the best proof there is. Where did the world come from, where did the universe come from?

yeh but something must have started the thing that started it all…hopefully that makes sense

yeh, what started the big bang? and if u have a scientific explanation for that as well, what started the thing that started the big bang, and so on, i really do have difficulty making sense.

God has always been

Gad has alwyas existed, no one made Goad.

What do you mean?

oh, wait, never mind. do believe that, you just have to have faith, there doesent need to be a scientific explanation to everything religous.

people believe god exists because of miracles and the existance of things

i agree with monkey

how do you think it all started just science? well someone must have created all that science, and miracles are when the impossible happen, only god could do that

good point

hu has a good point runnergrl?

you do

father christmas and ghosts are a lot different than God.

because things were all created somehow, and we believe by someone, because science as in the big bang etc, something/someone caused that, and there really isn’t any proof for ghosts /faires etc

exactly monkey

there is to proof for God!

well i think there is because things started and i think god started it, obviously you think otherwise, so shall we just leave it as that, because i am increasingly beginning to sound like an extremely religious person when i swear i wasn’t, infact i swore i never believed in god:S

what created/ caused the big bang? what created/ caused the thing that caused the big bag. ok, how did humans come to exist evolution? ok, well then what caused evolution? what caused the thing that caused evolution? somewhere God or devine intervention has to come in.

there is no proof that God extist.

wait, there is no proof that God doesnt exist

so ur saying everything was just there, and thats all that there is to it

u dont know that God doesent exist. prove that God doesent exist.

u want me to prove he does, u prove he doesnt.

yes i do

because it’s part of my religion, and because i have faith and i beleive because i beleive that what i say is proof IS proof, but u dont, and that is just your personal opinion.

hey, going back to the quantifiable forces, who created that, and runnergrl, u sed there is no proof that god exists, i thought u believed in god

that was a mistake, i left out a word

ok i take that back, it doesn’t have to be a who, but a something, and we think that the something is god

magic has nothing to do with God.

exactly runnergrl

that is just your personal opinion, that i happen to strongly disagree with.

No, there’s a lot more proof for God than Unicorns or Dragons, and i’ve tried to tell you what it is, but u dont believe it.

not god is an explanation of the existance of things, unicorns dragon and magic don’t have anything to do with that, so whhy do you keep bringing those things into this?

yeah
again, i agree with monkey

u think that quantifiable forces created everything we believe that god did, we just call them different things

sorry but what is a quantifiable forces:S

ya

That is just your opinion.

ooo, well do u believe one thing created everything else? what do you believe btw?

if we weren’t able to cope with our own existance, then we’d be dead, because believeing in god doesn’t keep us alive, and its not like god is phsically carrying us trhough life, we do that ourselves, we just believe god started it all off, like you believe something started things off, ps did u know this is currently the most popular post?

Really, there is no proof nobody knows if god is just a moral or the real thing. Nobody can prove that there were people on this earth thousands of years ago. I mean how were humans created, and the world and animals, they didn’t just appear so there has to be something that created them. it could have been god, it could have been something else but we will never know until you die. If you believe in god then you will go to a place called hevan and if you don’t you might go to a place called hell. Or you might just stay dead in your cascatt. life is a roller coaster. you will never know what comes next!

good point truelove

yes i agree with the fact that humans may not have neccessarily been made by god, by i think god made things like the big bang

ok, if u dont beleive in God, where do we go after we die? (just wondering, because if there is not God, there is not heaven, then what happens?)

Well arent you positive.

yes i agree with that theory. There are many others out there beside the big bang and god. I agree with everything, about going to heaven or just staying dead or maybe we take place in a different life.

yeh i think its completely possible that we just die too

uh, no, i dont have or need an emotional crutch of thats what ur insinuating.

we might not, i guess he could just be there

Hey

check these out if you havn’t already,
I get the feeling you’ll vibe on them
dvd’s
What the bleep do we know
Down the rabbit hole
The secret- my personal favorite….Love quantumn physics myself…but spirit fits right in there, as most scientists and theplogians are now in agreement over
peace

i never said that i NEEDED a God, but i believe in him anyway

Once again, that is jsut an opinion u have.

well we think there is

No, it is not a fact!! That is jsut YOUR personal opinion, that is what u beleive. i beleive ther is a God, u dont.

i know/seen plenty of evidence, ive told it to u, and u dont believe it. i will never think differently. and i will never change my mind that is jsut your personal opinion.

Could some of you maybe reply to my post about me loosing everything that would be great i really need advice.

No, ive given you proof, you just refuse to c it as that.

runnergrls evidence is the existance of everything, isn’t it?

what does a court of law have 2 w/ god or any of this?

i guess he could be, what do u say to that runnergrl?

but i seriously doubt it

its funny you should ask that question. i do believe god could have made this world. but, however, there has to be an infinity of galaxies, i mean, how could it ever end in space? we are probably just on this planet by coincidence, just like in 7th grade, when you had your classes on coincidence…. im just sayin, im neutral on this

I dont know what else to say. You dont think that it is, but as I have said before, I see what i have said as proof. The proof that i have told you, my faith, and my religion, and what i have learned in my religion class and at mass is all i need to believe GoD and Jesus. And I’ll say it again, although you don’t believe me, that God doesent’t exist is your opinion.

will anyone please,please, please reply to my post on how i lost everythin by gambling. I DESPERATE FOR ADVICE!

O well, i tried. Bye Bye

Hey I am GOD too, nice to meet you! Love to connect with other aspects of myself! LOl! You can not ask a question to which you don’t already know the answer…..Be still and ask yourself if there is a god, and listen up!

the thing is - if someone needs god, he/she creates it/believes it )one of the offered options)… but it does not make god real. and never will; for it is not real.
for others who don’t need god… yes, there is not one. and never will be. we will look down on those who can’t stand the thought that they are alone , without a nice “leader” taking care of you after death…

stupid fool! how were we made. don’t say ur mom. a meant from the start. where do u go when u die. why is there a church. there is a lot of reasons. god is real. why do u even ask thses question?

well magic some people don’t believe but people believe in power. like i said last time. life is not a dream. and u have….. ok what i am saying…. ok i forgot the point on sending these message. aw well (press)

as to “going somewhere”…well. I aint going anywhere-just rot

Cjmbroc definently pwned this thread.

Doesn’t it occur to anyone that it’s pretty pathetic to have to make up something in order to be able to accept death, life, etc.

It just proves that humans are weak.

God doesn’t exist.

Just because God isn’t quantifiable does not mean that he doesn’t exist. Think about it, if he was quantifiable, he wouldn’t really be God than, would he? Just take a look at the world around you. Everything in nature goes together so perfectly, there are sooooo many things that could just be a little bit different and life would cease to exist on this planet, but everything is so perfect here, so exactly right for life. I just can’t see how this could all be a giant fluke, it makes no sense. And on the topic of needing God, yes, I do need him. Not to cope with my existence, but because I do believe in him, and I know that he is so much smarter than I am. Any plans he has are way better than mine, and I’d have to be insane to try and do this all on my own.

I wouldn’t really say so much that we’re arguing about it. Simply, we are having a good discussion. We are not harming anyone, and so it shouldn’t bother you.

lol, sounds like your looking for a a fight cjmbroc, none can force you to believe them, that is up to you but at the same time as they have no real right to force you, you too have no right to try to make the doubt their faith. better to simply acnolage that some people will think difrently to you, and that will always be true. but its a good debate topic, but you have to be willing to give a little ground and not simply discard everything your told, after all you asked for it.

Blind faith and ‘acceptance’ do NOT equal valid proof of a god’s existence.

There’s really no proof either way (though I believe that as we are becoming a smarter race of beings that we are leaning towards secularity).

Asking for scientific proof or a definable method of existence from one of the faithful is futile, as they won’t be able to give it. The idea of god is subjective, and the whole idea of faith is for someone to just believe in something regardless of proof.

You’ll always run into circular arguments which go absolutely nowhere, and for us godless types, we’ll always run into people who fit into these following situations:
http://marconius.com/Existence.html

The big bang isnt really rational i mean what made the big bang? and whatever made it what made that? there is something that was always there whether god or not there is.

pokemon and qzzz…try to think of the big bang and our existence as something with no beginning. The notion of everything having a Beginning, a Middle, and an End is conceived by us since that is how our lifecycle propogates; in order for the Big Bang to make sense, you need to break off from this assumption.

Look up String Theory.

Hi all
I came across this thread somehow by an accident- Googled help, maybe it’s not an accident at all.

A few points:
Cjmbroc, For things to exist, they don’t have to be physically or mathematically quantifiable. Example: number pi= 3.141592… is not quantifiable, i.e. no matter how many decimal places we calculate, we never see the whole thing, but we all know that exists. There are countless similar examples like this.

Also what we can quantify depends on our knowledge; 500 years ago man could not ‘quantify’ radioactivity, but we both know that it has always existed. This is not to say that someday we will be able to quantify God. God as many of us believe is unquantifiable or infinite.

Also we know that our emotions exist but we cannot quantify them.

God (the infinite being) can be compared with the concept of infinite numbers (and limits) in mathematics: we can never see them directly but we might be able to obtain some of their characteristics & without them mathematics was a joke.

If you are a man of science; you should be a good observer: find one example of a system that has been brought to existence by an accident. Every system has a
designer & we call the designer of this world God. As to why only one designer, I’ll leave it to you to research it.

If you have been around in this world long enough, you would know that:
A) Science is not the answer to everything
B) Not everything can be explained by science

I don’t think anyone can live long enough to prove part B of your logic, sgngunne.

Everything that science has set out to understand has been explained by it, and anything unexplained has just not been explained yet and is still under study. Science evolves, adapts, and works to form a better understanding of what is around us. That is the nature of science itself. Some things take generations of observation, others take only a fraction of a lifetime to understand.

A system brought into fruition by accident…the Slinky would be one. As would be penicillin, and the theory of gravity.

Marconius, I generally agree with everything you say, but I think there are a couple caveats to what you said above. Modern psyc and scientific philosophy have come across two divergences from philospohical naturalism (this is like determinism except to allow for quantum randomness, pretty much the same as what you are writing).

These two divergences are:
1. Human consciousness is still hard to explain. I am NOT talking about intelligence, but consciousness. Philosophers are debating what consciousness IS. There is a debate that evolution should have created intelligent mechanistic creatures, but not the miracle of consciousness. Even with the incredibly sophisticated life forms brought about by evolution, the fact of your consciousness should be a bit of a mystery to you. What is it like to be Marconius? They use this phrase a lot, the fact that it is like something to be someone (consciousness) cannot be explained by the existence of a super-sophisticated highly intelligent machine.

2. Seems very odd and unlikely that something like the big bang would occur at all. But it did. Most physicists agree that the big bang occured and generally what happened starting from a microsecond after the universe was created. But how the big bang occured is still a mystery.

These two things are stubbornly eluding science. Here is some very interesting text on the subject. I am curious of your thoughts:

Francis Fukuyama: I think science has shown that if there is an intervention from something outside of the laws of physics, it’s not something that comes about in the year four-thousand B.C. or whenever in the sense of creationism. Science has shown that the laws of physics are fairly well established and regular and we don’t see any reason to doubt them. I think there are 2 real aspects where not all the doors are closed. The first has to do with cosmology, modern cosmology, because, in a sense, this idea that creation began with this big bang immediately raises the question “Well what existed prior to the big bang?” You know in a sense all teleological theories argue that there is a beginning of history and therefore an end. What modern physics has show is that in fact we can point to a beginning. The universe in that sense was not eternal, it was created and a lot of modern cosmological theories show that it was a event of such unbelievably low probability that it makes you wonder why did it lead to the universe that we see. I think at the other end you have a further question about human uniqueness and human dignity because I think that the product at the other end of this evolutionary chain is something that I think is quite hard to understand in terms of all of the parts that came before it, things like human consciousness, human emotions, all of the things that actually make us believe that we are something special in creation i think have not been fully demystefied by Darwinism or modern neuroscience or by all of the other scientific disciplines that have been chipping away at that but I think have not really gotten there yet.

Wright: Do you think some modern scientific interpreters have been a little facile in their handling of consciousness for example in that way in dismissing the difficulty of the problem.

Francis Fukuyama: Well I think not some, most of the field has been much to facile in the questions of consciousness. A large number of the writers on consciousness have basically defined the problem away either by overtly saying that it doesn’t exist or somehow what we think of as consciousness is just some how an illusion or defining it in terms that are then explainable by the material causality that they understand to be the only form of causality that exists. I think that in fact no one has even come close to asking or to answering the basic Cartesian question, and that consciousness and thought and emotion - all of those subjective states - are just a different order of being, so it’s even harder to understand what a scientific explanation of its emergence would even look like. That’s not to say that it has a divine source but it just means that I think you know modern natural science is not as certain as it thinks it is that it can answer these questions.

Wright: And certainly true or at least arguably consciousness in the broad sense of subjective experience is what gives life meaning. I mean if it weren’t…

Francis Fukuyama: That’s right.

Wright: … if we were just robots you know if we looked just like we look and behave just like we behave but it was not like something to be us, then it seems to me moral questions would really lose their significance.

Francis Fukuyama: Well that’s absolutely true. You know there’s a silly line that comes out of strong artificial intelligence that holds that the mind is just this big computer and that if you had the computer that gets up to the same level of complexity as the human brain then it’s going to start acting like a conscious human mind. I think what that abstracts from is that the human mind is really much more than that. It’s the seed of all of the emotions and the desires and ultimately you know these are the source of moral feelings and of human morality itself. Human morality really has to do with human purposes that are defined by wants and desires and indignation and all of those internal states and if you don’t have that, you don’t have 99% of what it means to be a human being.

Wright: Yeah, and further if you ask me why do I think it’s wrong to walk up to someone and you know whack them in the head, it has to with the fact that it hurts when you do it. I mean, subjective experience is for me at least what gives meaning to the concepts of right and wrong when you’re dealing with human beings.

Francis Fukuyama: No, that’s absolutely right and you can certainly I mean if you just take a functionalist interpretation … you say that you have this subjective sense of pain because you want to avoid damage if you put your hand in the flame, but you know you can do that without the subjective sensation. I mean you can design a robot that will sense flame and pull itself away, but why we have to feel the things that we feel I think is much less clear.

Wright: Yea. And it seems to me that ironically that view emerges from actually quite scientific view of the world. It’s if you are a true scientific materialist then you believe exactly that, that in principle you can build a robot just as complex as us and in you’re whole causal flow chart showing how it works, consciousness doesn’t have to enter in anywhere. You do it all mechanistically in principle. And yet and yet consciousness is here.

Yea, but there have been lots and lots and lots of books written that were not true. And many Christians (in fact the best Christians) understand that the Bible is a spiritual book, not literally or scientifically accurate. The laws of physics would have to have been broken if the world stands as it does today and was created 4000 years ago. And we don’t have any reason to think THAT happened.

Finally, even if we wanted going to go with “historical records”, there are many different historical records, so we cannot. We are forced to reconcile them with eachother and with scientific observation. Beyond that, I am not going to discuss this with you anymore. You mind is closed, and you are just arguing any idea that will support your belief, rather than finding ideas you think are true in order to shape your belief.

It would definitely take something smarter than us to objectively dissect what makes up our consciousness. It’s almost something that we’ll never discover due to it’s recursiveness…someone with their own emotions and feelings attempting to discern the emotions and feelings of another; what makes their mind tick, when they themselves can’t look into themselves to find it. Reminds me of a line and a song track from Half Life 2, “Something Secret Steers Us.”

I’d agree we’d be able to build a robot only as far as we can observe currently…we can mimic adaptation, mimic evolution and the will to learn, but we cannot go farther than what we ourselves can do.

As I’ve stated in another thread, the idea of Chaos existing prior to the Big Bang is a rather lucrative place for thought. An existence that follows no Law we’ve established currently, and that just happened to come together so perfectly through a chance reaction that it spawned what we currently are. It’s as much of a cop-out as attributing existence to a god (i.e., something immeasurable), but it stands more towards a formulated thought by reason.

Qzzz, there are more measurable and noticeable phenomena in the universe that suggest the existance of the Big Bang event than there is proof of a deities’ existence.

Throwing up your hands and just attributing everything you don’t know or don’t care to know to a god is probably the most illogical thing you can do.

Yet what I believe has measurable evidence, and yours does not other than just plain faith. Mine has the ability to adapt and open roads to more knowledge, and plain faith just hits a brick wall. To each their own, I guess, in the quest for knowledge.

Nothing has proven the Big Bang yet, I merely said there was a lot more information out there suggesting proof of it’s theoretical nature than there is of proving something said to be “infinite.”

There are similarities in the quest for knowledge and the quest for god, I don’t deny that, and the difference lies within the goals of each endeavour, plus key differences in the methods of search. There’s no faith involved in the search for the Big Bang…it’s just a widely accepted theory of natural events. As soon as someone figures out and can offer good evidence suggesting another idea of origin, people will study and consider it.

What do you mean the question isn’t discussed much Amoebus?

We have been discussing it for the last 5 or 10 posts. And you and I discussed for another ten posts in “What ur thoughts on Cristianity”. Remember? We actually agreed on this one.

I said one physicist said he believes that the big bang happened when God opened his hand, etc. And right now, this is one of only a couple of real issues in modern scientific philosophy, as I said before.

“2. Seems very odd and unlikely that something like the big bang would occur at all. But it did. Most physicists agree that the big bang occured and generally what happened starting from a microsecond after the universe was created. But how the big bang occured is still a mystery.

These two things are stubbornly eluding science.”

So, this question is discussed VERY much.

isn’t that strange? the “god-party” people say “what caused the big bang, where was the beginning” and so on. at the same time, they blidly believe that the god did not have any beginning, that he is eternal … what is the difference between the big banng and the god then…

The difference, in my opinion, is that the Big Bang has no power. Its like saying that (bear with me here) a rock was the first thing ever to exist. Why, exactly, was that rock the first thing to exist. What power did it have over anything? God, on the other hand, is a being which, if exists, has complete power. It would make sense that if something were the first thing to exist, if there was something from which everything else came from, that it would have ultimate power.

Breket, the big bang is a theory requiring people to have a hopeful, believing attitude to accept it without proof. The existence of God and what He says requires the same attitude, now described as faith, to believe what is recorded in the bible.

well, exactly. therefore, i don’t claim that either of them is 100 % true. whereas the “god-party” are sincerely and blindly convinced they are right; for “the bible says it”. i don’t see any reason why I should trust a >2000 years old piece of literature more than recent scientific research.

Every culture expressed by human beings has a theory on life and origins that cannot be 100% proven, recent scientific reserch is no different. Scientific research does reveal many facts, information, processes etc, but it does not prove the origin of life 100%

Other people say the same thing you do about the bible being a >2000 years old piece of literature. But when the accounts written by Julius Caesar, Claudius or Tacitus concerning historical events from approximately the same time period are put forward as the truth they are accepted. Accounts of battles, movements or conversations without any other specific physical evidence of the actual event taking place as they recorded it can be labelled as the truth. Should we believe Greek, Egyptian or Babylonian writings; when is it fact, or fiction and myth? In two hundred years time will films like Lethal Weapon or books written by Tom Vlancy be seen as factual events or fiction set in a real period of time?

My mistake, I hit the wrong key, the author’s name is Tom Clancy

still, I ‘d prefere not to believe anything:)

there is no proof only belief… and i dont know y she’s thinks im aneorexic… give me some advice plz!

It’s all about faith.