gay help: I think im gay but i dont want to be. - Help.com

You don’t have to be anything. It’s really up to you, your genitalia, and your brain, not some other omnipotent force. You are in controlllll.
There’s never a valid reason for being ashamed of yourself.

honestly i cant remember a time when i wasnt like this. I’ve always been different, maybe i brought this on myself but i cant… dont want to be like this forever and i dont know what to do. i have no one to talk to

Same situation bro

what do you do about it?

Hey, that’s okay. In all sincerity, I find myself attracted to my own gender, too…but, I’ve never been in a relationship, and therefore, have not been able to validate this. I might be in love with my best friend. [We’re both girls. She told me she thought she felt the same about me at one point. Sighhh.]
What I’m saying is, it’s okay! Nobody would have to know other than your lover, you know? If you don’t like the idea…maybe you could try out a “normal” relationship first. If you find yourself attracted, then you won’t have to worry about being gay. “Gay” is just a label, there’s really no reason to categorize yourself. I think.

Well, have you ever thought about a girl in a sexual way? Have you ever been with a girl?

Being gay isn’t really a choice, unfortunately. It is something that you either are or you aren’t and there’s not much changing that. I happen to be a lesbian. I came out when I was 15 and I wouldn’t do a thing to change that. Thing you have to learn to do is find acceptance within yourself and then you will have no problem being who you are. I wish you the best of luck in finding joy with whoever you love, man or woman, just know that what matters is your happiness.

I’m thankful for the sympathies you all have given me. I’ve never talked about this before. I just feel lost. I don’t understand maybe I’m dramatic. But I don’t want to be this way but I can’t help it. Is God playing with me? Telling me it’s wrong and making me feel aweful everyday but still I have these feelings and I don’t know where they came from. They’re here and i feel them.

don’t label yourself
in the same way being known or called a emo/ goth/ chav/ hipster gets boring and old i think labeling yourself as gay bi lesbian pansexual bi sexual gets boring too
just be yourself

I still hate myself.

grant.duval wrote:
I still hate myself.

you hate yourself because of who you’re attracted too?

grant.duval wrote:
I still hate myself.

Being gay isn’t the end of the world, guy, thing’s will eventually get clearer.
It isn’t something you should be ashamed of and it isn’t some divine punishment from god.

Yes. I was brought up to not be like this. I’m just telling the honest truth. In my family this is unexceptable. I pray that this will leave me but I’m never content. I just want to know that one day I’ll be happy. That I’ll be able to deserve the love of a woman and be able to love her as much as she deserves.

Grant ~ I encourage you to seek out support from any local gay community center you might have available to you. What you are experiencing is normal in the comming out process but is better handled when you have the proper level of support from others who have gone through the same.

Please do not hate yourself. Sexuality is only one tiny part of who you are as a whole person.

You know you can’t help who you fall for, it’s just life. I freaked out when i admitted to myself i liked girls, it took a while, but i got over it. I’m just me

Thank you for ya’lls love. I’m not coming out or in the process. I’m strong. I’ve been strong and alone for a long time. If I were to put an age I’d say 13. But I know that ya’ll are trying to help me and I’m so thankful but this could never be me. I have to sides of me that rip eachother apart. But I got to stay strong. Just please pray that I will be want I want to be in the end. Let me find peace love and happiness.

‘’In the face of ferocious hatred, believe in the possibility that there exists the potential for equally as big, intense, lovely and fiery ferocious love'’

The worlds not all bad not everyone will judge you when you stop judging yourself

oh god im being too close to nice idk whats going i think i mean, stfu get over yourself its not the end of the world

There’s nothing more ballsy than admitting what you are regardless of how people feel about it.

statistically it is highly unlikely - i am attracted to same gender and opposite as well.. it takes time to become comfortable with sexual feelings anyway…

if you want to be attracted to opposite sex people then work on that for a while and see how it goes.

yes it can be genetic (which is rare) , but it can also be behavioral which is much more likely.

either way - do not hate yourself. we are who we are and we have to love and care for ourselves 1st before we can love others and be able to contribute to the world.

big hug and lots of encouragement to you for learning about who you are and who you want to be : )

Thank you all for caring for a complete stranger. I appreciate it so very much. Thank you, good night

Well, I know I’m late to this, but here’s my input anyway.

First off, stop thinking that “gay” and “straight” and all these other terms are a definition of who you are, because they are not! People are not homosexual, ACTIONS are homosexual. And even if your actions in life go in that direction, it doesn’t mean that it’s who you are. We are more than just the sum of our actions. You are a beautiful person, who is full of love and passion. That’s all you need to know right now. Don’t worry about gay, or straight, or geek, or jock, or anything else. You are just you, and nothing else.

Attraction, even aroused attraction, can have a lot of different meanings. But unfortunately, teenagers and young adults don’t comprehend the difference a lot of times. There are people who love dogs, are naturally drawn and attracted to dogs, and even get sexually aroused while playing with dogs. But that doesn’t mean that they’re “Dogsexual”.

Also, just because you are attracted to a certain type of person, it doesn’t mean that you should become romantically involved with them; regardless of what gender they are. There are men out there who are only attracted to certain kinds of women, and those women treat the poor fellows like dirt. And there are women out there who are attracted only to men who are drunks and womanizers. So just because an attraction exists, it doesn’t mean that it’s right, wrong, or inbetween. It is just a feeling, and feelings come and go like the wind. When people are young, they think that what they want is good, but oftentimes is not. As you grow older, you learn to adjust your wants and desires to focus on things that are good for you. That is called self-control.

I don’t know if people are born with a “gay” gene, or if it is because of the environment they are raised in, or if it’s some kind of mentality brought on by the power of suggestion. Personally, I think it’s a mixture of all three. But regardless of WHY it happens, even if it’s something you are born with, you can change it. People who are born with a natural predisposition to family illness, like cancer or stroke, can do things to prevent it from happening to them too.

After all is said and done, this site is about helping people grow, and change, and become who they want to be in life. If you are not happy with who you are, or your situation, then change it. This is not in any way a statement just for you, but for anybody who feels trapped by their circumstances.

If you are absolutely sure that you do not want to have these feelings anymore, and you want to take action to change your life, then please, visit this site to learn ways to do it:

http://www.samesexattraction.org/

You aren’t alone. There are millions of people just like you all over the world. So be strong, be bold, and be yourself.

Daft Puck wrote:
Being gay isn’t really a choice, unfortunately. It is something that you either are or you aren’t and there’s not much changing that. I happen to be a lesbian. I came out when I was 15 and I wouldn’t do a thing to change that. Thing you have to learn to do is find acceptance within yourself and then you will have no problem being who you are. I wish you the best of luck in finding joy with whoever you love, man or woman, just know that what matters is your happiness.

So, people who are born men, but don’t want to be the way they were born, and want a sex change operation… they should just find acceptance within themselves that they are men, and they’ll have no problems being who they are?

Blest, you said exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you, now I have confidence that I am in control of something. Your so right

Post a replyyou almost got the trans bit right, blest.
They come to accept that they are women, that they’ll be miserable if they continue to try to conform to the male social norms, and that things would feel a lot less hopeless if they tried being who they are: a woman.

We’re trying to tell this kid that there’s nothing wrong with being gay haha we’re not giving you a death sentence here
You shouldn’t let people and their personal beliefs pressure you to being something you do not want to be.
changing yourself is okay if and only if you’d be doing to for yourself and you know it’d make YOU happy and you’re not just doing it to please other people and hopefully fit in well enough for them to leave you alone
you need to have a clear idea of what exactly it is that you want
i don’t want you to sink into depression
really i don’t
but you’d need to figure out if these depressive thoughts exist because you’re ‘gay’ or if it’s from the environment around you who doesn’t accept it
so OP i’m telling you to give it time
wait and see
things will clear up

Keckers wrote:
you almost got the trans bit right, blest.
They come to accept that they are women, that they’ll be miserable if they continue to try to conform to the male social norms, and that things would feel a lot less hopeless if they tried being who they are: a woman.

Well, Daft just said “Accept who you are”. When you are born as a man, or a woman, that is who you are. Having a sex change is not accepting who you are, it is changing who you are. Accepting who you are would be accepting that you are a man or a woman, because that’s how you were born. It’s just like accepting that you are born with a certain sexual preference. But if you think that people shouldn’t have to accept who you are, and that it’s fine to have a sex change from being a natural-born male to a female, then you cannot think it’s less okay to change from a natural-born gay male, to a heterosexual male.

To do so is to be a hypocrite.

Blest wrote:

Keckers wrote:
you almost got the trans bit right, blest.
They come to accept that they are women, that they’ll be miserable if they continue to try to conform to the male social norms, and that things would feel a lot less hopeless if they tried being who they are: a woman.

Well, Daft just said “Accept who you are”. When you are born as a man, or a woman, that is who you are. Having a sex change is not accepting who you are, it is changing who you are. Accepting who you are would be accepting that you are a man or a woman, because that’s how you were born. It’s just like accepting that you are born with a certain sexual preference. But if you think that people shouldn’t have to accept who you are, and that it’s fine to have a sex change from being a natural-born male to a female, then you cannot think it’s less okay to change from a natural-born gay male, to a heterosexual male.

To do so is to be a hypocrite.

but it’s how you were born
it isn’t who you are or who you want to be
like..uh.. i don’t even know how to put this into perspective
well i’ve just backspaced plenty of cruddy examples
guhh this is probably because i’ve got a lot of trouble with the whole ‘born this way’ thing
you are who you choose to be

Well Anonymous, you pretty much are in control. I abstain from everything related to romance at the moment. You could too if you wanted to. Though I’ve found it’s easier to do when certain emotional needs are met by friendships. Because people do need love, in the platonic sense of it; so if you keep yourself alone and without having others who care about you you will have a hard time. Romance is not as necessary. Though it can be a good thing.

Keckers wrote:
you are who you choose to be

Exactly. If you think you were born as a gay male, and don’t want to be gay, then there’s no reason you have to choose to be gay. Being born that way doesn’t mean anything. Just like if you are born a biological male, and don’t want to be male, you can get a sex change and choose to become very much a female.

But if you think that somebody who is born as a gay male should just accept that it’s “who they are” and not try to change it, then you must also say that somebody who is born a biological male should also just accept that it’s “who they are” and not try to change it.

Like you said, it’s who you choose to be. And if somebody chooses that they don’t want to be gay, even if they were born that way, then why should they accept that as who they are? And if somebody chooses that they don’t want to be male, even if they were born that way, then why should they accept that as who they are?

I’m not criticizing or anything. It’s just one of those little double standards or hypocrisies that exists in a lot of people’s minds, especially within the GLBT community.

you are not gay

Why wouldn’t you want to be exactly who you are? You are beautiful just the way you are because you are you - unique. There is no one on this Earth exactly like anyone else even though we are all very similar we are also all very different which makes us beautiful! It would be such a bland world if all the flowers in the world came in the same shade of colour, same shape and same length. just as it would be an extremely dull world if we all looked, acted, thought and spoke the same… it would drive us all crazy. It wont be easy. I wont sugar coat it for you, there are a lot of bar stewards out there that in their ignorance fear and reject difference and will try their upmost to make life hard for you. But if you suppress who you are it will probably be the worse decision you ever made because you held back from truly living your life to the full.

Did you know in ancient “Greece” it was ‘normal’ for men to be gay. They only married to bred and locked their wives up at home while they went on many a gay escapades. Gay was not effeminate or something to be ashamed of in those times it was the ultimate expression of divine and masculine love. The Romans conquered the Greeks and brought with them their beliefs of heterosexuality and the Christians brought their beliefs of monogamy and so what was considered ‘normal’ for society kept changing and changing again. So dont you see there id no such thing as ‘normal’ per se as this keeps changing according to societies beliefs - therefore do not let a fickle society dictate what is normal for you, as long as you are not hurting anyone (including yourself) or forcing them to do what they don’t want to do, than choose your own normality.

Phoenix [NQ wrote:
❤]But if you suppress who you are it will probably be the worse decision you ever made because you held back from truly living your life to the full.

Exactly. Not to mention pent up resentment accumulating over the years and that can only end bad.

Exactly. If you think you were born as a gay male, and don’t want to be gay, then there’s no reason you have to choose to be gay. Being born that way doesn’t mean anything. Just like if you are born a biological male, and don’t want to be male, you can get a sex change and choose to become very much a female.

Sexuality is not chosen. Sorry, but it is not possible to ‘choose’ who you are attracted to. As far as transgenders go, it’s such a complicated and convoluted thing so to say that a physical man wanting a sex change to feel like his outside reflects how he feels inside, is disingenuous and plain ridiculous. I have spoken to a man who felt he was born the wrong gender, and has always felt like a woman, been attracted to men, and just felt that he did not identify with the gender he was born as. Whether it’s a result of hormones, or uprbinging, does not really matter. When a person like him gets a sex change it is not them conforming to what society or others tell them to. These kinds of choices are made only with the self in mind. Nobody gets a sex change unless they feel that in doing so, they are being true to themselves and how they feel.

It’s always better to encourage people to embrace who they are, to accept themselves than it is to say that you can always change. This couldn’t be more true for somebody having problems dealing with their sexuality. As for the OP feeling uncomfortable with being gay, I have no doubts that this is a result of pressure from outside forces - most likely their religion or faith dictates to them that their sexuality is wrong, or somehow ‘fixable’. They may feel as though they will not accepted by their family (parents especially). There is also still a lot of hatred and stigma attached to being gay, despite how we have advanced from 50 years ago. At the end of the day, we are who we are. If you are gay you are gay. If you are straight you are straight. Who cares? And if people do care, f*** em’!

30thriving wrote:

Phoenix [NQ wrote:
❤]But if you suppress who you are it will probably be the worse decision you ever made because you held back from truly living your life to the full.

Exactly. Not to mention pent up resentment accumulating over the years and that can only end bad.

And will turn into internalised negative emotions chewing you up inside

Enjoy yourself…its later than you think!
[youtube:http://youtu.be/PbPixXLdgRE]

“Exactly. If you think you were born as a gay male, and don’t want to be gay, then there’s no reason you have to choose to be gay. Being born that way doesn’t mean anything. Just like if you are born a biological male, and don’t want to be male, you can get a sex change and choose to become very much a female.”

That was supposed to be in quotes. Whoops.

God created me to be a nasty mean person… i know it is genetic… i get it from my mom’s side of the family - so the world should just deal with it and i should love myself anyway right?

lol

Anonymous wrote:
God created me to be a nasty mean person… i know it is genetic… i get it from my mom’s side of the family - so the world should just deal with it and i should love myself anyway right?

lol

Only holds true if yo’re not hurting anyone lol Being nasty and mean does hurt people

Phoenix [NQ wrote:
❤]

Anonymous wrote:
God created me to be a nasty mean person… i know it is genetic… i get it from my mom’s side of the family - so the world should just deal with it and i should love myself anyway right?

lol

Only holds true if yo’re not hurting anyone lol Being nasty and mean does hurt people

really? how so? you can chose to be around me or not be around me and that is your choice….i do not subject children to my meanness only consenting adults… and may i just say plenty of people are more than willing to have someone be mean and nasty to them.

face it - the world is full of idiots and morons that need to be put in their place… who better than me to do it.

and yes - i get fired a lot. it is not fair - just because i am honest in a way people do not like? nothing is more disgusting than am obsequious sycophant…

should i be judged for finding the weak place in your heart and pointing it out?

i think people should make room for me in the world too.

you odnt have to BE anything. yo are fuly in control of your lie and your actions. just take some time with these thoughts, maybe you arent and they are just thoughts. or maybe you are and it takes time to adjust to it. take your time and remember, this is your life and only you ca make the decisions as to which direction to take. and we’re here to support you, 100% of the way, 100% of the time, no matter what.

z€bπå §p؆s wrote:
you odnt have to BE anything. yo are fuly in control of your lie and your actions. just take some time with these thoughts, maybe you arent and they are just thoughts. or maybe you are and it takes time to adjust to it. take your time and remember, this is your life and only you ca make the decisions as to which direction to take. and we’re here to support you, 100% of the way, 100% of the time, no matter what.

wow - hmmm… maybe i could choose to be nice too… i will have to consider that… do you really think it is possible to overcome my genetic inclination to be mean?

i mean - if i wanted to…?

Anonymous wrote:

z€bπå §p؆s wrote:
you odnt have to BE anything. yo are fuly in control of your lie and your actions. just take some time with these thoughts, maybe you arent and they are just thoughts. or maybe you are and it takes time to adjust to it. take your time and remember, this is your life and only you ca make the decisions as to which direction to take. and we’re here to support you, 100% of the way, 100% of the time, no matter what.

wow - hmmm… maybe i could choose to be nice too… i will have to consider that… do you really think it is possible to overcome my genetic inclination to be mean?

i mean - if i wanted to…?

irrelevant to the OP.

z€bπå §p؆s wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

z€bπå §p؆s wrote:
you odnt have to BE anything. yo are fuly in control of your lie and your actions. just take some time with these thoughts, maybe you arent and they are just thoughts. or maybe you are and it takes time to adjust to it. take your time and remember, this is your life and only you ca make the decisions as to which direction to take. and we’re here to support you, 100% of the way, 100% of the time, no matter what.

wow - hmmm… maybe i could choose to be nice too… i will have to consider that… do you really think it is possible to overcome my genetic inclination to be mean?

i mean - if i wanted to…?

irrelevant to the OP.

really? - i do not think so… people here are telling him God made him gay and it is genetic as if he has no choice… all i am doing is offering another perspective on that - but thanks for your willingness to butt in and criticize - even if you are wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

z€bπå §p؆s wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

z€bπå §p؆s wrote:
you odnt have to BE anything. yo are fuly in control of your lie and your actions. just take some time with these thoughts, maybe you arent and they are just thoughts. or maybe you are and it takes time to adjust to it. take your time and remember, this is your life and only you ca make the decisions as to which direction to take. and we’re here to support you, 100% of the way, 100% of the time, no matter what.

wow - hmmm… maybe i could choose to be nice too… i will have to consider that… do you really think it is possible to overcome my genetic inclination to be mean?

i mean - if i wanted to…?

irrelevant to the OP.

really? - i do not think so… people here are telling him God made him gay and it is genetic as if he has no choice… all i am doing is offering another perspective on that - but thanks for your willingness to butt in and criticize - even if you are wrong.

tsk tsk tsk, someone’s a tad spazzy. your problems have nothing to do with the OP right now. you are currently postjacking and going off-topic. the opis talking about homosexuality and you’re muddling on about your lack of manners yo blame on genetics. grow up, child, and learn to have some respect for the OP’s issues. if you want attention to your problem, make a post about it yourself, thats the way the site works.

irrelevant to the OP.

Phoenix [NQ wrote:
❤]

Only holds true if yo’re not hurting anyone lol Being nasty and mean does hurt people

One of my friends no longer has a family because of his homosexuality. When he “came out” to them, it hurt them so much that they couldn’t stand to be around him anymore. They thought what he was doing was nasty and hateful. Does that mean that homosexuality is bad? It hurts a lot of people, and has destroyed a lot of families.

If not, then who is qualified to judge what type of “hurt” is okay, and what type of “hurt” is not okay?

z€bπå §p؆s wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

z€bπå §p؆s wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

z€bπå §p؆s wrote:
you odnt have to BE anything. yo are fuly in control of your lie and your actions. just take some time with these thoughts, maybe you arent and they are just thoughts. or maybe you are and it takes time to adjust to it. take your time and remember, this is your life and only you ca make the decisions as to which direction to take. and we’re here to support you, 100% of the way, 100% of the time, no matter what.

wow - hmmm… maybe i could choose to be nice too… i will have to consider that… do you really think it is possible to overcome my genetic inclination to be mean?

i mean - if i wanted to…?

irrelevant to the OP.

really? - i do not think so… people here are telling him God made him gay and it is genetic as if he has no choice… all i am doing is offering another perspective on that - but thanks for your willingness to butt in and criticize - even if you are wrong.

tsk tsk tsk, someone’s a tad spazzy. your problems have nothing to do with the OP right now. you are currently postjacking and going off-topic. the opis talking about homosexuality and you’re muddling on about your lack of manners yo blame on genetics. grow up, child, and learn to have some respect for the OP’s issues. if you want attention to your problem, make a post about it yourself, thats the way the site works.

irrelevant to the OP.

no- metaphorical

Why do you think you are gay? Do men turn you on? Only men? Have you ever looked at naked pictures of women and it makes you kind of want to throw up in your mouth? I mean if your body reacts a certain way I am not sure you can control it. It doesn’t sound like you are completely sure of what you are, though…

Maybe if you don’t want to be gay you should try looking at naked pictures of women and then think about sex at the same time. Perhaps you could condition your body to react the way you want it to. Maybe you could even get yourself excited manually and then look at the naked women. Train yourself that naked women mean sexual pleasure. Just an idea.

Anonymous wrote:

z€bπå §p؆s wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

z€bπå §p؆s wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

z€bπå §p؆s wrote:
you odnt have to BE anything. yo are fuly in control of your lie and your actions. just take some time with these thoughts, maybe you arent and they are just thoughts. or maybe you are and it takes time to adjust to it. take your time and remember, this is your life and only you ca make the decisions as to which direction to take. and we’re here to support you, 100% of the way, 100% of the time, no matter what.

wow - hmmm… maybe i could choose to be nice too… i will have to consider that… do you really think it is possible to overcome my genetic inclination to be mean?

i mean - if i wanted to…?

irrelevant to the OP.

really? - i do not think so… people here are telling him God made him gay and it is genetic as if he has no choice… all i am doing is offering another perspective on that - but thanks for your willingness to butt in and criticize - even if you are wrong.

tsk tsk tsk, someone’s a tad spazzy. your problems have nothing to do with the OP right now. you are currently postjacking and going off-topic. the opis talking about homosexuality and you’re muddling on about your lack of manners yo blame on genetics. grow up, child, and learn to have some respect for the OP’s issues. if you want attention to your problem, make a post about it yourself, thats the way the site works.

irrelevant to the OP.

no- metaphorical

no, off topic. enough of this, this is about the OP not you. focus on him ok

well if you dont want to be gay just think before what you say. and dont go in peoples bussines

Correct me if I am wrong but being gay is not an option. If you are gay you need to embrace it so you can be happy.

Anonymous wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but being gay is not an option. If you are gay you need to embrace it so you can be happy.

i beleive you’re right.

OP might be bi too, i suppose if he wanted he coud experiment within his comfort zone?

Blest wrote:

Phoenix [NQ wrote:
❤]

Only holds true if yo’re not hurting anyone lol Being nasty and mean does hurt people

One of my friends no longer has a family because of his homosexuality. When he “came out” to them, it hurt them so much that they couldn’t stand to be around him anymore. They thought what he was doing was nasty and hateful. Does that mean that homosexuality is bad? It hurts a lot of people, and has destroyed a lot of families.

If not, then who is qualified to judge what type of “hurt” is okay, and what type of “hurt” is not okay?

I’m sorry, but where did you learn about ethics?
Homosexuality isn’t causing the hurt here. If the friend’s family feels hurt then that’s because of their own beliefs and perceptions - it’s their business, and it may be something they might want to look into getting help with. :-P

Mr. Green wrote:

Blest wrote:

Phoenix [NQ wrote:
❤]

Only holds true if yo’re not hurting anyone lol Being nasty and mean does hurt people

One of my friends no longer has a family because of his homosexuality. When he “came out” to them, it hurt them so much that they couldn’t stand to be around him anymore. They thought what he was doing was nasty and hateful. Does that mean that homosexuality is bad? It hurts a lot of people, and has destroyed a lot of families.

If not, then who is qualified to judge what type of “hurt” is okay, and what type of “hurt” is not okay?

I’m sorry, but where did you learn about ethics?
Homosexuality isn’t causing the hurt here. If the friend’s family feels hurt then that’s because of their own beliefs and perceptions - it’s their business, and it may be something they might want to look into getting help with. :-P

i agree, its pure ignorance to blame a family’s judgment on somethign like that. frankly blest, i’m ashamed that you woudl ever think that way.

so it’s like you want men but you don’t want to be gay, what do you want badder, men or being straight? if it’s being straight, then how come men are still winning u over? i think when what u want doesn’t match how you feel then maybe ur misreading your own messages… how abouts u just try to find the strongest passion and follow it?

Since this topic is rather fun, what would people say about those who are “born” having a sexual attraction to children? And other similarly messed up urges, bestiality, etc. There is a difference between something you can and should control and get rid of and those things you can’t; to say, “ah that’s just the way I am” is not a good idea unless it’s something you shouldn’t change. I use those extremes as an example not a direct comparison. I can’t think of something you can’t get rid of if you try hard enough. Whether or not the OP wants to do so is up to him, but since he doesn’t want to be gay, I don’t see the problem. I don’t want to have sex, and I’m succeeding in that admirably (yay). So I don’t see why he has to be a certain way if he doesn’t want to.
I also don’t see why a person’s emotions are decided at birth. If so, what are they, genetic? Then homosexuals would not exist according to evolution and its survival of those species that would produce the most viable offspring.
Why is love the only emotion that is an apparently inherent things you cannot control? But hatred, kindness, jealousy, etc. all can be controlled?

I’m a sadist. I enjoy peoples’ suffering (by the way, sadism is often a feeling that is described as sexual gratification as well, on some level; similar to lust as the closest example I suppose). And yet, over time, I am slowly removing that aspect of myself. I don’t see how there is a difference between that and this. They’re both a sexual (of sorts) inclination that are in a person. And yet it is going away for me. I’m not stifling it, it feels good to get rid of; almost like a blight on my heart is being removed. Again, what the OP wants to do is up to him. But I still do not see a difference. From what I’ve seen every single aspect of a person is their choice, though they are influenced by the environments they grow up in.

it is funny how when some people do not understand something they chose to judge it.

i hope we are helping… one way or another.

we each have different ways of talking to you - but i hope you can tell that we all care about you and want you to love yourself and find a way that works for you…

i wish you all the best. and i believe you can do whatever you set your mind to.

z€bπå §p؆s wrote:
I’m sorry, but where did you learn about ethics?
Homosexuality isn’t causing the hurt here. If the friend’s family feels hurt then that’s because of their own beliefs and perceptions - it’s their business, and it may be something they might want to look into getting help with. :-P

i agree, its pure ignorance to blame a family’s judgment on somethign like that. frankly blest, i’m ashamed that you woudl ever think that way.[/quote]

But, if you KNOW that your family would be hurt by you revealing such information to them, aren’t you knowingly causing harm?

Like, say that your grandpa, when he was young, got addicted to drugs and murdered somebody during a mugging while he was going through withdraws. He went to jail, got clean, and changed his life. Then he married your grandma, never told her about it, they had a son, who later got married and had you. Now, grandpa lived a good, loving life afterwards, and never hurt anybody, and nobody in the family ever knew about his drugs, murder, or jail time. Grandpa grows old, has a long life, and passes in his sleep.

So, say that years later you accidentally stumble across a court record online when doing Family Tree research. You discover that your grandpa, the loving generous man you knew, was actually a murderer, and a recovering drug addict. You KNOW that this information was kept secret his whole life, and you KNOW that revealing it to the family would hurt them. Is it moral or ethical to take something that really is nobody’s business but grandpa’s, and reveal it to the family, knowing that it will just hurt them?

I know it’s a different kind of circumstance, but the moral implications are the same. Your sexuality is nobody’s business, and is (or at least SHOULD BE) a very private thing. Sexuality like your bowel movements; everybody has them, but only perverts want to know the details. So is it really moral and ethical to tell people about your private thoughts, KNOWING that it will destroy them and cause them pain?

People often get so caught up in the “rights” movements, that they forget that with every right, there comes responsibilities. I am all for Gay Rights, and for people living their lives however they want. But with those rights, comes a responsibility to others as well. And there are people out there, who for whatever reason, are hurt by the concept of homosexuality. It doesn’t have to make sense to you, and you don’t have to understand it. But if you don’t accept THEM for their behavior and flaws, and you don’t accept THEM for their misguided pain, how on earth do you expect THEM to accept YOU as well?

That’s the problem that a lot of bigots have, even within the GLBT community; they hold everybody to a double standard. They want everybody to accept them as they are, but don’t want to extend that same acceptance to others. You don’t defeat your enemies by fighting with them, or opposing them. You defeat them by loving them and respecting them. Because when you love somebody, and honor their opinions in spite of your own bias, they cannot help but respect you and your choices in life as well. And that goes for EVERYBODY.

Sexuality in and of itself is not a behavior but apart of ones core idenity. The behavior part comes into play when one acts upon their sexual attraction for a specific gender.

While people, regardless of their sexuality, can choose whether or not to engage in the behaviors associated with their sexuality, they do not choose their sexuality itself, or so I believe.

Haters gana hate.

Legal Guardian wrote:
Sexuality in and of itself is not a behavior but apart of ones core idenity. The behavior part comes into play when one acts upon their sexual attraction for a specific gender.

While people, regardless of their sexuality, can choose whether or not to engage in the behaviors associated with their sexuality, they do not choose their sexuality itself, or so I believe.

Correct.

If it’s correct, could someone explain what I find confusing about the idea of that then? I fail to see what proof there is for it. To the point that I have to suspect it’s merely due to an ulterior motive of claiming that people can’t change it. “I want this outcome, so I choose this premise” would be a bad thing to do.

DarkSnow wrote:
If it’s correct, could someone explain what I find confusing about the idea of that then? I fail to see what proof there is for it. To the point that I have to suspect it’s merely due to an ulterior motive of claiming that people can’t change it. “I want this outcome, so I choose this premise” would be a bad thing to do.

It’s as simple as this DarkSnow. I don’t know what preference you are, but I am just going to assume you are straight, and for the purpose of this exercise I’m going to give you a girlfriend. Do you actively choose to be attracted to your girlfriend? As in, do you look at her and think “wow, I really love this girl, she’s so beautiful” or do you think “I’m going to be attracted to her today”?

If I told you to choose to be sexually attracted to a guy I picked out for you, would you be able to do it? Of course you wouldn’t. Because sexual attraction is not chosen. It’s not a behavior. Sexuality is hardwired into our DNA and is determined prior to birth (DNA and hormones), and perhaps some environment thereafter (the first 5 years or so).

If you want evidence to show that you cannot change your sexual orientation, I can give that too. And this is coming from a Christian website.

http://www.christianforums.com/t1647820/

Blest wrote:

Phoenix [NQ wrote:
❤]

Only holds true if yo’re not hurting anyone lol Being nasty and mean does hurt people

One of my friends no longer has a family because of his homosexuality. When he “came out” to them, it hurt them so much that they couldn’t stand to be around him anymore. They thought what he was doing was nasty and hateful. Does that mean that homosexuality is bad? It hurts a lot of people, and has destroyed a lot of families.

If not, then who is qualified to judge what type of “hurt” is okay, and what type of “hurt” is not okay?

They’re own prejudice and irrationality is what hurt them. They chose how they wanted to feel about the situation. They CHOSE to cast a member of their own flesh and blood out. If you can so readily deny your own flesh and blood for something as mundane as sexuality then i’m not sure your type of hurt qualifies with the other more valid hurts in the world. In short they should learn to get over themselves they would be far more happier if they did.

Blest wrote:

Daft Puck wrote:
Being gay isn’t really a choice, unfortunately. It is something that you either are or you aren’t and there’s not much changing that. I happen to be a lesbian. I came out when I was 15 and I wouldn’t do a thing to change that. Thing you have to learn to do is find acceptance within yourself and then you will have no problem being who you are. I wish you the best of luck in finding joy with whoever you love, man or woman, just know that what matters is your happiness.

So, people who are born men, but don’t want to be the way they were born, and want a sex change operation… they should just find acceptance within themselves that they are men, and they’ll have no problems being who they are?

Their psyche makes them who they are. If their psyche does not match their gender and a sex change would make them feel complete, why is it anyone elses business?

Jessica Wabbit wrote:
Do you actively choose to be attracted to your girlfriend? As in, do you look at her and think “wow, I really love this girl, she’s so beautiful” or do you think “I’m going to be attracted to her today”?

I don’t normally actively choose to hate people either. It just happens. And then I can influence that emotion, as I can influence any emotion of mine, attraction included. I could remove my love towards people and hate those who have been kind to me, and I’ve done it before. It’s something I try not to do, but it has happened. So I don’t see your point. For me, love has also been a choice. After a person grows closer to me, it’s harder to go against that tendency, yes. Which is what normally happens for each emotion a person can feel. Hatred can increase, love can increase, so forth. The reason why I wouldn’t have to think I’ll be attracted to a person that day is not because of an inherent attraction. I never knew the girl when I was born, and a lot of the things I value in a person have changed throughout my life based on my experiences as well–and I can trace quite a few of those preferences. The reason is that I would have a history of emotions to associate with the person, they have my trust, they have been kind to met, etc. So of course I wouldn’t have to wake up and decide. And neither would I have to wake up and realize that I trust a family member.

Jessica Wabbit wrote:
If I told you to choose to be sexually attracted to a guy I picked out for you, would you be able to do it? Of course you wouldn’t. Because sexual attraction is not chosen. It’s not a behavior. Sexuality is hardwired into our DNA and is determined prior to birth (DNA and hormones), and perhaps some environment thereafter (the first 5 years or so).

Which brings back to my comment on homosexuality and evolution. As an inferior theoretical gene for reproduction, evolution dictates if it was a genetic characteristic, it would be annihilated. As for being sexually attracted to a guy, not likely. But that is no more an indication that I am heterosexual by birth than my choice not to stick my hand into a fire shows that I’m not physically capable of doing so. If someone asked me to take a gun and shoot someone, I’d similarly choose not to. And I don’t think I was born with a genetic code that causes that either. Is there a way to prove the differences between those? As for the environment thereafter, that is my point. I don’t know whether it’s 5 years or longer, though a lot of my habits have been established when I was that young.

http://www.christianforums.com/t1647820/
^ This is an interesting post. I have no loyalty to Christian forums, nor to Christians in general, first of all. The Crusades were conducted in the name of Christianity along with a lot of other atrocities. So I don’t see a reason why I’d immediately make something credible in my mind if the person saying it was a Christian. Second of all, this person is quoting from a source whose bias I greatly suspect:
http://www.outfront.org/library/exgay
And his ‘facts’ consist only of ‘quotes’ as far as I was able to tell. I tried to look up some of the information backgrounds but gave up.

As for its claim that nobody has ever become ex-gay except those who pretended it… /shrug/ I’ve known at least two people personally who have changed their sexual preferences from being gay to being straight. But I haven’t been actively looking for people who have done so. Sexual preferences another person has normally don’t interest me much.

“Attraction” of any kind, be it attraction to shiny objects, attraction to certain types of food, or sexual attraction; they all take place in the same parts of the brain. They are categorized in Psychology as “appetites”. And like all appetites, they are strong, and they can feel overwhelming at times. But they are not in control of you unless you allow them to be.

Like other appetites, sexual appetites are “preferential” to specific likes and dislikes; just as food appetites are preferential to specific flavors and tastes. That is also why, in psychology, sexuality is often referred to on a scale. Most people fall somewhere between purely homosexual and purely heterosexual, simply because people have different tastes and preferences. It is similar to how there are some people who are purely vegetarian, and some who are purely “meat and potatoes” kind of people; yet the vast majority of people falls somewhere in the middle.

As you grow and develop, so do your likes and dislikes, and your appetites. And those appetites can be strong or weak, depending on different phases of life. That’s why some people have no sex drive for years on end, and then are suddenly horny as a goat for an entire decade. Also, as your likes and dislikes change, your “preferences” change as well. You like different foods as a middle-aged adult than you did when you were a teenager or young adult. This is how most people describe a shift in sexual preference later in life. Many young men and women will be fine in a heterosexual relationship during their younger years, and then slowly grow to prefer a homosexual partner as time goes by.

The thing about appetites and preferences though, is not that we are “born” with certain ones. We are born with appetities, and a desire for preference, but we are not born with anything specific in mind. Babies who enjoy carrot babyfood might grow to hate it within a year’s time. Others might not. And though we are not born with certain preferences, we also do not have much control over them as a child or youth. That is why parents tell their kids to “eat your vegetables”, because even though kids don’t usually like vegetables, they are important for health, and developing a taste for them is also important. And as an adult, you are much more capable of forcing yourself to eat certain things, to stay healthy, and to control your urges to go for things like candy and chocolate for every meal. And, in time, you acquire a preference for healthy choices.

So as far as psychology goes, the sexual preference is much the same. You might have developed a certain sexual preference as a youth, but it is just an appetite; and you have the ability to acquire different tastes over time. It is by no means “out of your control”, any more than obesity and unhealthy eating is out of your control. There are many obese people who claim that they had no choice, or that blame McDonald’s for their condition. And while McDonald’s might certainly be a contributing factor, it was never beyond somebody’s ability to choose a salad over the triple-quarter-pounder with cheese. The idea of a salad might disgust the obese person, and they might LOVE their triple-quarter-pounders. But being attracted to the burger, and repulsed by the salad, is not a good enough reason to pick one over the other. And that attraction and revulsion has in no way removed CHOICE from the situation.

I don’t care how much somebody is attracted to a certain gender, and revolted by another: there is always a choice. It is an appetite, and a preference, and it can be changed.

Blest wrote:
That is also why, in psychology, sexuality is often referred to on a scale. Most people fall somewhere between purely homosexual and purely heterosexual, simply because people have different tastes and preferences.

Oh yes, I had forgotten that. Thanks for the reminder.

DarkSnow: You talk about attraction and compare it to hatred, love, trust. Sexual attraction is not an emotional response. It’s intrinsic. All you have to do is look at the animal kingdom. Sexuality is a product of evolution, of DNA. And there are a multitude of other mammalian species on this planet that have the same diversity in sexuality as humans do. For a list, just do a google search “homosexuality in animals”.

Again I stress to you. Sexuality is not a choice. Attraction is not a conscious choice. Arguing that it is so, would suggest that there is no value to sexuality - that it is something that can be ignored. It isn’t. Animals are driven by sex and the need/want to reproduce. Just as a man is attracted to women fulfilling his biological imperitive, homosexual men will be attracted to other men fulfilling a biological imperitive. To reproduce. Before you mention it (but homosexuality makes no sense since it doesn’t render children) - mammals are driven by sex as it is also pleasure seeking. Pleasure seeking is also intrinsic in our DNA. All mammals have this hardwired. Pleasure seeking is nature’s way of ensuring the continuation of the species. Anything an animal does that furthers its own survival or that of its kind is pleasurable, in order to make sure the animal keeps doing it. That includes sexual intercourse. Remember that the only purpose of the clitoris is to give pleasure, and nearly all mammals have a clitoris (only monotremes don’t).

However, very few animals have sex purely for pleasure, rather than for procreation. Humans of course are one. Bonobos mate regularly with all members of their group, including those of the same gender and juveniles. This is a form of social bonding, rather than for reproduction - it’s fairly obvious that mating with an individual of the same sex, or one too young to breed, is not done in order to procreate. Chimps and dolphins have also been observed mating when not in season, simply because they enjoy it, but just because most animals only mate in order to reproduce does not mean they don’t enjoy it.

Sexuality is not a choice. As for you example of knowing two people to have gone from gay to straight, let me just say. Personal anecdotes to not make a fact. Ask any doctor/biologist/scientist/zoologist about sexuality, and whether it is chosen, and they will tell you that it is not a choice, and people who think it is (and try to change) more often than not end up depressed and many commit suicide as a result of misinformation about sexuality.

I challenge you to force yourself to become attracted to a member of the opposite sex and initiate a relationship with one. Really, I do.

Jessica Wabbit wrote:
Again I stress to you. Sexuality is not a choice. Attraction is not a conscious choice. Arguing that it is so, would suggest that there is no value to sexuality - that it is something that can be ignored. It isn’t.

That is exactly what I said… nobody is ignoring that sexuality is a part of being human, or that attraction isn’t something you just chose to do one day.

Sexuality, the desire to have sex, is not something you choose. Your body naturally wants to have sex sometimes, just like it naturally gets hungry or thirsty. It is an impulse guided by hormones, and it is a type of “appetite,” just like hunger and thirst. When you are hungry, you didn’t CHOOSE to be hungry, it just happened. When you get horny, you didn’t CHOOSE to get horny, it just happens sometimes.

Attraction is, as you said, not a conscious choice. Sometime during your youth or childhood, you developed a mentality of sexual attraction, and by the time you are about 25 years old, that mentality is pretty solid. But it is NOT something you chose. It slowly built up within you over the years, in a very subtle way. And because you never noticed it happening, when it finally came to fullness, you thought “Hey, this has been here a long time, so it must be who I am.”

The same sorts of mentalities can develop from abuse. If somebody treats you like crap your entire childhood and youth, then you will begin to develop what they call an “inferiority mentality”. Because at some point, you stop thinking you’re a good person, and you start believing what everybody has said and done to you.

The reason I compare the two is because they both make people say “I am” and “I always have been.” One says “I am straight” or “I am gay.” The other says “I am stupid” or “I am worthless.” And they both believe that’s who and what they are, and nothing can change it. There are even case studies where men who identify as straight are raped by another man, and then suddenly begin to go through an identity crisis from the abuse. So the two mentalities are different, but related. You could call them “cousins”.

So while sexual preference is not INITIALLY a conscious choice, it can be consciously changed. Just as people who spend their whole lives believing that they are worthless can forcibly make themselves change their thinking. And though you do not choose your appetites like sexuality, just as you cannot choose to be hungry or thirsty, you CAN choose what you do with that sexuality, hunger, and thirst. To think otherwise, is to say that a severely obese person has no control over their condition; because they didn’t consciously choose to be hungry for a triple quarter pounder with cheese. Of course they didn’t CHOOSE to get hungry for something like that. But it happened anyway. But though they didn’t choose to be hungry, they CAN CHOOSE to resist and control what they do. They can choose to not eat at all, or choose to eat something that is healthy.

Just because something isn’t initially our choice, doesn’t mean that our free will is removed from us. If our appetites and desires were out of our direct control, everybody in America would weigh 500 lbs. and die at age 30 from heart attacks. If our appetites and desires were out of our control, then when a man got an urge to have sex with a woman, and raped the first one he came across, it wouldn’t be his fault. If he was not in control of his sexuality, then he could not be guilty of rape, because he had no control in the situation. But that is not the case. P

People have control over their sexuality, attraction, and sexual preference. They simply choose not to exercise that control, just as a morbidly obese person chooses not to exercise control over their hunger, attraction, and food preference. They don’t control their appetites, and they’ve always been hungry their whole lives, so they think being a fat person is just “who they are.”

I understand where you’re trying to go with this but
the thing is
there is nothing inherently bad about being gay
I mean i’m completely with you when you’re applying this logic to people with self destructive thoughts/eating disorders/drug addictions
and it takes them years to break their habits and they go through hell and back to become healthy/functional again

but why would someone willingly go through all that simply because they’re not heterosexual?
isn’t acceptance a whole lot less..uh.. time consuming

so okay yes given the proper tools the human mind can be conditioned to feel sexually stimulated by an alligator it’s malleable that way
but..why?

So sexual attraction for some odd, and unproven, reason is separate from emotions. I see. I’ve done that before actually, and to humor you I did it again. But the fact remains, those creatures “exhibiting homosexual behavior” all have to have heterosexual behaviors to pass on genetics. It is *the* fundamental portion of evolution. Minute changes over a long period of time due to the nigh miraculous ability of creatures to increase genetic diversity, which is impossible if the genetic material is not passed on. Which is the case for homosexuality.

Actually, it is something that can be ignored, and is ignored; there have been celibate people in the world. And as for need or want to reproduce, it seems as if that isn’t the case quite often. Abortions are prolific. No, it’s probably just the pleasure that motivates quite a few people. And by the way, if pleasure is an evolutionary advantage, then so is sadism ^^ But seeking pleasure still does not pass on genetics. It’s all about how a creature is better able to reproduce that passes on genetics. Again, that is the fundamental portion of evolution.

Did I ever claim personal anecdotes made facts? It’s been my idea to merely use logic and what any rational person can observe.

Jessica Wabbit wrote:
Ask any doctor/biologist/scientist/zoologist about sexuality, and whether it is chosen, and they will tell you that it is not a choice, and people who think it is (and try to change) more often than not end up depressed and many commit suicide as a result of misinformation about sexuality.

Speaking of misinformation and facts… Proof? Actually, no, don’t bother, I can disprove that fairly easily.
I find it oddly contradictory of you to now suggest I get personal anecdotes after claiming they have no place here… I do know doctors and scientists who would say it is not genetic though; I have not, however, asked biologists or zoologists. That’s not a bad idea though, I think I shall. I’m very surprised at your claim, actually. There are scientists who disagree with everything under the sun, how do you not know this? How could you possibly have them all in agreement on one thing, whether or not it was true?
There is an engineering concept. The more specific and generally applicable something is, the less likely it is to be true. And the less specific and generally applicable it is, the more trivial it is. The chance of all of something being a certain way is infinitesimally unlikely if there is even a slight possibility of deviation. Perhaps you meant a large number of those people rather than all of them, hmm. If that is the case, you are going to have to prove your audacious claim. And show how it is not just your own personal anecdote and you are not hypocritically doing exactly what you claim I was trying to do.

As a counter-argument, I challenge you to force yourself believe in God. But you can’t, and not because atheism is in your genetic material. No, you are able to, but you won’t.
It’d be much harder to argue against you if you avoided logical fallacies. To say when someone will not do something is the same as how someone cannot do something is easy to disprove. I merely have to use set theory from mathematics. A part of which, to put it simply, is that it is possible to disprove something by finding an exception. There are rules for arguments that say something similar, but mathematics interests me more.

Keckers wrote:
I understand where you’re trying to go with this but
the thing is
there is nothing inherently bad about being gay
I mean i’m completely with you when you’re applying this logic to people with self destructive thoughts/eating disorders/drug addictions
and it takes them years to break their habits and they go through hell and back to become healthy/functional again

but why would someone willingly go through all that simply because they’re not heterosexual?
isn’t acceptance a whole lot less..uh.. time consuming

so okay yes given the proper tools the human mind can be conditioned to feel sexually stimulated by an alligator it’s malleable that way
but..why?

Why do it? Why do anything that is difficult or time consuming?

Why do people get sex change operations? If you are born as a man, but feel that you are truly a woman, wouldn’t acceptance be a whole lot less time consuming? I mean, you have to spend years of your life and tons of money to have a sex change. All it takes is one minute to sit down, and say, “I accept that I was born a man, and that’s who I am.” So why go to all the trouble? Because that isn’t who they want to be.

If you are not an exciting person, isn’t it just easier to accept who you are, and accept that people just don’t really like being around you, than it is to change your entire personality to become a “fun” person? I mean, it’d be so much easier to just hang out with other people that aren’t any fun… but why would you want to do that? You don’t want to hang out with boring people either, because that’s not what you want to do.

There’s nothing wrong with being born a man, or being a boring person, just as there’s nothing wrong with being gay. But some people just don’t want to accept it as who they are. So they change. They may never be 100% female, or the “life of the party”, but they can get pretty close. And while you may never be 100% heterosexual, you can get pretty close.

It’s one of the biggest forms of bigotry that exists within the GLBT community. The reason is not scientific or psychological, but political. The reason that people constantly push the idea that “sexual attractions cannot be changed”, is because the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered community use that as an excuse for why Gay Rights are so important. They try to make it out like being gay is like being black: you’re born that way. When psychology and science are pretty solid that NOBODY is born with any kind of sexual preference. Rather, it is a learned, non-conscious mentality just like preference in colors, and food, and things like that.

And I get why the GLBT community does that. I really do. I don’t agree with it because it isn’t true, but it is an effective form of propaganda, and it gets results. And if they think that it’s the only way to get the government to recognize their rights, then maybe it’s worth it in the end. But as far as individuals go, telling somebody who has unwanted same-sex feelings that they “cannot change”, when they can, is wrong.

After all, if we try to convince somebody that wants to live openly as a straight man or woman that they “should accept being gay”, how is that any different than society trying to convince a person that wants to live openly as a gay man or woman that they “should accept being straight”?

Blest wrote:
After all, if we try to convince somebody that wants to live openly as a straight man or woman that they “should accept being gay”, how is that any different than society trying to convince a person that wants to live openly as a gay man or woman that they “should accept being straight”?

Indeed, I’ve noticed that as well. It’s a lot to do with a victim mentality. Minorities can get special rights, and then things become discriminatory against the majority. It’s similar for a lot of job applications and scholarship applications.

Keckers wrote:
but why would someone willingly go through all that simply because they’re not heterosexual?
isn’t acceptance a whole lot less..uh.. time consuming

Firstly, I love the logic Blest has shown. I agree 100% with it. Secondly, I have no problem with homosexuality. I see it as, whatever floats your boat. What they do affects me in no way so why let it bother me?
To answer Keckers question, why not? If it’s something that someone does not want, then even the most time consuming things are worth it. Some people want the “normal” life. The wife and kids with no homosexual urges haunting them.