Situation help: What is the difference between forgiveness and being a doormat? - Help.com

justaskkkkin wrote:
2 feet

huh?

Forgiveness is good to certain extent.
So long as it doesn’t impede your progress in life and affect your well being, then keep forgiving. If you are being affected and the other person doesn’t get it, then its time to be kind to yourself and make a swift exit from that relationship.

moonlightsupper wrote:
Forgiveness is good to certain extent.
So long as it doesn’t impede your progress in life and affect your well being, then keep forgiving. If you are being affected and the other person doesn’t get it, then its time to be kind to yourself and make a swift exit from that relationship.

Its a fine line between being kind and being taken advantage of isnt it? I dont really understand what forgiveness is- i cudnt define it. its just a word spiritual ppl use tht sounds empty and doesnt really have any meaning behind it.

Forgiveness is about completely letting go of something that would otherwise bother you. It means you no longer harbor resentment, you don’t bring it up, you don’t dwell on it, you don’t use the ‘issue’ as a weapon to use against the person when it suits. You simply become emotionally detached from the problem. That is true forgiveness.

Yes, there is a fine line between being kind and being taken advantage of but remember its entirely up to you when and how you allow being taken advantage of.

you can forgive someone and still not trust them.

let go of you anger toward them but don’t trust them until they prove to be trustworthy again.

forgiveness is understanding that sometimes people do selfish and immoral things because people are weak. forgiveness is giving away your anger and your want for revenge.

being a doormat is letting them do it again, and again, and again…

you forgive, you forget them, and you keep stepping, or they’ll use you again cause now they think you’re stupid

moonlightsupper wrote:
Forgiveness is about completely letting go of something that would otherwise bother you. It means you no longer harbor resentment, you don’t bring it up, you don’t dwell on it, you don’t use the ‘issue’ as a weapon to use against the person when it suits. You simply become emotionally detached from the problem. That is true forgiveness.

Yes, there is a fine line between being kind and being taken advantage of but remember its entirely up to you when and how you allow being taken advantage of.

Yh- obviously if you’re not ready to let go, then trying to force forgiveness would just be denying your real feelings and that can be more destructive then carrying resentement. We don’t really live in a world where ppl are allowed to openly admit to feelings of resentemet or jealousy or even injustice. If the offending person is just carrying on regardless, then the person who has been hurt by them is often encouraged to ‘forgive’ or ‘let it go’ because the offending party has moved on, and its a matter of protecting your own sanity. Also pressure from others might make it seem like you’re expected to forgive and forget or else your a bad person for having feelings like anger and resentment, but if you’re not ready to do so due to lack of resolution in the situation, then you can end up apperaring to go through the motions of forgiving, letting go of resentmet etc. for other ppls benefit.

Forgiveness seems like a bit of a paradox. I think ultimately, forgiveness is to preserve the sanity of the person who has been offended against, even if the offerders have no remorse/wish to redress the harm theyve caused, on the other hand if someone keep slapping you in the face and all you do is keep turning the other cheek -isnt that being a doormat? Its really difficult to know when to forgive and when not to. Is forgiveness conditional on the remorse of the offender? If you forgive someone who isnt sorry, isnt that a signal to them that they can get away with anything and you’ll never take action against them? What if you want to forgive, are aware that the resentment is causing way more harm to you then it ever could to the offender, but you don’t know how to avoid being taken advantage of in the same way and so forgiving ppl who may not have any remorse and have no intention of treating you any differently/better?

Is forgiveness a ‘desrved’ thing?

Anonymous wrote:
you forgive, you forget them, and you keep stepping, or they’ll use you again cause now they think you’re stupid

But what if you still have to see them every day? How can you forget them then?

justinjohnsonsli wrote:
you can forgive someone and still not trust them.

let go of you anger toward them but don’t trust them until they prove to be trustworthy again.

Does that only refer to ppl who want to regain your trust though? Is forgiveness conditional on theyr remorse and desire to be forgiven?

lolzy wrote:
forgiveness is understanding that sometimes people do selfish and immoral things because people are weak. forgiveness is giving away your anger and your want for revenge.

being a doormat is letting them do it again, and again, and again…

This sounds like conditional forgiveness, like a semi-forgiveness where you’re not starting a clean slate with the offender, but still remaining vigilant against the lowest point of their character, until they prove themseves trustworthy. If you did forgive totally and unconditionally and didnt harbour a record of the offenders past misdeeds at the back of your mind, do you think that gives them the green light to do it again and again?

What sort of forgiveness gives the offender the signal that what they did before will not be tolerated again? -can this truly be called forgiveness when it seems more like probation?

lolzy wrote:
forgiveness is understanding that sometimes people do selfish and immoral things because people are weak. forgiveness is giving away your anger and your want for revenge.

being a doormat is letting them do it again, and again, and again…

But if you catagorize ppl as selfish, immoral, weak-isnt that still harbouring resentement? Or pitying them? Arent you just saying, ‘I wont feel angry anymore bcz you are moraly inferior to me and letting go of anger makes me feel like a better person than i think you are.’?

I think the problem is that you keep trying to define forgiveness in the context of other people- when it really should be about YOU the one making the forgiving. It doesn’t matter how people choose to behave after you forgive them. It doesn’t matter whether they have remorse or not, and whether they prove themselves trustworthy or not in the future.

You forgive (or not forgive) as a personal choice based on the behavior and not based on the nature of the person you are dealing with. If you don’t agree with the behavior but chose to forgive, you are effectively saying ” I am chosing to rise above this and I won’t let it get to me, we all all entitled to make mistakes” . If you don’t agree with the behavior, and you forgive but the behavior continues to affect YOU directly, then you have every obligation to yourself to walk away. This doesn’t not mean leave your place of work or avoid the person. It does however mean you choose to detach on a personal level from the person affecting you (so you don’t create a doormat of yourself). So you become ‘present’ with the person and the circumstance but ‘not present’ [for the offender]’ if you see what I mean.

Forgiveness is not a paradox, but really simple. It can be unnecessarily complicated if you don’t really want to forgive another.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
you forgive, you forget them, and you keep stepping, or they’ll use you again cause now they think you’re stupid

But what if you still have to see them every day? How can you forget them then?

you remember your pain - through them, not you, and then you realize you are better than that, you deserve better than that, and you get protective of You and believe that You are not accepting crap any longer! Period. End of their story, on with your New. … no looking back ~ E

Anonymous wrote:

lolzy wrote:
forgiveness is understanding that sometimes people do selfish and immoral things because people are weak. forgiveness is giving away your anger and your want for revenge.

being a doormat is letting them do it again, and again, and again…

This sounds like conditional forgiveness, like a semi-forgiveness where you’re not starting a clean slate with the offender, but still remaining vigilant against the lowest point of their character, until they prove themseves trustworthy. If you did forgive totally and unconditionally and didnt harbour a record of the offenders past misdeeds at the back of your mind, do you think that gives them the green light to do it again and again?

What sort of forgiveness gives the offender the signal that what they did before will not be tolerated again? -can this truly be called forgiveness when it seems more like probation?

no, it’s real forgiveness. real forgiveness does not require that you stupidly try to force yourself to forget about what happened and give them a chance to do it again. like i said, that’s called being a doormat. forgiveness does not mean “giving them a clean slate” it means letting go of the emotional urge to punish someone for what they have done. intellectually, you have a duty to yourself to not put yourself in a position to be hurt again.

Anonymous wrote:

lolzy wrote:
forgiveness is understanding that sometimes people do selfish and immoral things because people are weak. forgiveness is giving away your anger and your want for revenge.

being a doormat is letting them do it again, and again, and again…

But if you catagorize ppl as selfish, immoral, weak-isnt that still harbouring resentement? Or pitying them? Arent you just saying, ‘I wont feel angry anymore bcz you are moraly inferior to me and letting go of anger makes me feel like a better person than i think you are.’?

no it’s not. recognizing what is staring you in the face is called not being blind/stupid. if someone hurts you and you sit there thinking “well huh, they’re probably a totally nice person with no flaws” then you have learned nothing from the experience and you are likely to be hurt again.

it doesn’t mean you are morally superior, though. you have also been selfish and foolish and weak, and you have also hurt people before, sometimes knowing it, sometimes not knowing it, sometimes seeking forgiveness, and sometimes you didn’t care.

Anonymous wrote:

justinjohnsonsli wrote:
you can forgive someone and still not trust them.

let go of you anger toward them but don’t trust them until they prove to be trustworthy again.

Does that only refer to ppl who want to regain your trust though? Is forgiveness conditional on theyr remorse and desire to be forgiven?

no it is not conditional to the other persons feeling at all, the only condition is your personal desire not to walk around with chip on your shoulder.

nor does forgiveness mean you have to like, love, or have any sort of relationship with.

moonlightsupper wrote:
I think the problem is that you keep trying to define forgiveness in the context of other people- when it really should be about YOU the one making the forgiving. It doesn’t matter how people choose to behave after you forgive them. It doesn’t matter whether they have remorse or not, and whether they prove themselves trustworthy or not in the future.

You forgive (or not forgive) as a personal choice based on the behavior and not based on the nature of the person you are dealing with. If you don’t agree with the behavior but chose to forgive, you are effectively saying ” I am chosing to rise above this and I won’t let it get to me, we all all entitled to make mistakes” . If you don’t agree with the behavior, and you forgive but the behavior continues to affect YOU directly, then you have every obligation to yourself to walk away. This doesn’t not mean leave your place of work or avoid the person. It does however mean you choose to detach on a personal level from the person affecting you (so you don’t create a doormat of yourself). So you become ‘present’ with the person and the circumstance but ‘not present’ [for the offender]’ if you see what I mean.

Forgiveness is not a paradox, but really simple. It can be unnecessarily complicated if you don’t really want to forgive another.

Forgiveness which is not dependent on other ppls remorse -your view of their worthiness rele- is the highest form of forgiveness definately, there seem to be different ‘grades’- the purest for is that based on your desire to let go of anger,resentment, grudges-even for justice or recognition and then there are all the shades of forgiveness* -* meaning conditional or provisional, say forgiveness*1: depending on receiving an apology or forgivenes*2: which is provisional bcz the offender knows they are expected to regain ur trust. I don’t rele regard these *’s as true forgiveness - its coming to terms/finding peace with the situation, but i think forgiveness is the wrong word to use for these shades.

On the other hand, it seems that the unconditional kind could easily lead to being taken advantage of - if your forgiving, just for your own peace, without apology, without any guarentee that the situation wont repeat itself you’re making yourself very vulnerable. How can you help letting it get to you, or else feeling your only option is to slink away, feeling under pressure to leave if the offenders behaviour does not change? How can you walk away without leaving? Im afraid i didnt follw what you said about ‘being present’, can you explain tht bit?

i think the ‘full’ form of unconditional forgiveness is too much to expect in some cases, although some ppl who have gone through horrendous experiences can feel the need to do so.

There have been lots of interesting comments to this post, but I still find it impossible to reconcile unconditional forgiveness with ensuring your own dignity, welbeing and self-respect?

justinjohnsonsli wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

justinjohnsonsli wrote:
you can forgive someone and still not trust them.

let go of you anger toward them but don’t trust them until they prove to be trustworthy again.

Does that only refer to ppl who want to regain your trust though? Is forgiveness conditional on theyr remorse and desire to be forgiven?

no it is not conditional to the other persons feeling at all, the only condition is your personal desire not to walk around with chip on your shoulder.

nor does forgiveness mean you have to like, love, or have any sort of relationship with.

but isnt that still harbouring resentment in a more hidden/passive way?

lolzy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

lolzy wrote:
forgiveness is understanding that sometimes people do selfish and immoral things because people are weak. forgiveness is giving away your anger and your want for revenge.

being a doormat is letting them do it again, and again, and again…

This sounds like conditional forgiveness, like a semi-forgiveness where you’re not starting a clean slate with the offender, but still remaining vigilant against the lowest point of their character, until they prove themseves trustworthy. If you did forgive totally and unconditionally and didnt harbour a record of the offenders past misdeeds at the back of your mind, do you think that gives them the green light to do it again and again?

What sort of forgiveness gives the offender the signal that what they did before will not be tolerated again? -can this truly be called forgiveness when it seems more like probation?

no, it’s real forgiveness. real forgiveness does not require that you stupidly try to force yourself to forget about what happened and give them a chance to do it again. like i said, that’s called being a doormat. forgiveness does not mean “giving them a clean slate” it means letting go of the emotional urge to punish someone for what they have done. intellectually, you have a duty to yourself to not put yourself in a position to be hurt again.

But I think that’s only half-forgiveness, if your still having to remain vigilant bcz u cannot trust the person who hurt you. Letting go of the emotional need to punish the person, or to have others understand what they did, to get justice or an apology is just that, its just something you need to do for your own wellbeing, but if you’re still expecting the worst from them and continuinally reminding yourself of their lowest points and to see them in a bad light, then that’s a passive grudge no? If you’re still bearing a grudge, if only a faint one, then you havent really forgiven the offender, but without vigilance, theres very little to stop you being walked all over again and ending up in exactly the same position. How can you forgive + completely let go of grudges while still ensuring your own quality of life?

Anonymous wrote:

justinjohnsonsli wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

justinjohnsonsli wrote:
you can forgive someone and still not trust them.

let go of you anger toward them but don’t trust them until they prove to be trustworthy again.

Does that only refer to ppl who want to regain your trust though? Is forgiveness conditional on theyr remorse and desire to be forgiven?

no it is not conditional to the other persons feeling at all, the only condition is your personal desire not to walk around with chip on your shoulder.

nor does forgiveness mean you have to like, love, or have any sort of relationship with.

but isnt that still harbouring resentment in a more hidden/passive way?

no it isn’t.

Anonymous wrote:
But I think that’s only half-forgiveness, if your still having to remain vigilant bcz u cannot trust the person who hurt you. Letting go of the emotional need to punish the person, or to have others understand what they did, to get justice or an apology is just that, its just something you need to do for your own wellbeing, but if you’re still expecting the worst from them and continuinally reminding yourself of their lowest points and to see them in a bad light, then that’s a passive grudge no? If you’re still bearing a grudge, if only a faint one, then you havent really forgiven the offender, but without vigilance, theres very little to stop you being walked all over again and ending up in exactly the same position. How can you forgive + completely let go of grudges while still ensuring your own quality of life?

i’m just going to say here and now that forgiveness isn’t what you think it is. you seem to think that forgiveness is purging your mind of everything this person has done to hurt you and completely pretending like it never happened. it’s not. once you understand that, you’ll be able to understand more complex situation. until you get that right, you’re still going to be confused.

if a person hurts you, there’s a greater chance that they are likely to do again. recognizing that is not “half-forgiveness”, it’s not a “passive grudge”, it’s having a brain. so while you may continue to treat them nicely (and forgive them for what they have done), be aware that if you make yourself vulnerable to them, then you have no one to blame but yourself for putting yourself in a dangerous situation again when you know full well that they have a tendency to hurt others.

forgive but never forget