hate help: why are wiccans hated? - Help.com

Because the bible said “witchcraft” is “evilllllll”, and because ppl are narrow minded intolerent jerks

ive never heard about your religion. Im very interested though. What is your religion? I would like to learn

wica is amazing!

Wiccans are a new version of paganism. The reason why people don’t like them is the fact that they were out of existance for hundreds of years and every other religion has tried to convert them. Just out of curiosity mate, if your a Wiccan why don’t you know much about your faith? I encourage you to learn about it. I also must add, I am hurt that you cited Christians in particular, Islam would be a better example.

Both religions are jerks to “evilllll” “witchcrraftt”

wiccans are hated not for there eligion, but because many of them (not neccissarily you) only say they are wiccan even though they are just some attention starved emo kid/ loser that nobady likes. I don’t hate all wiccans and not all of them are like this just lots of them are only in it so they can act superior to others. in short, people hate wiccans because they (in general) are full of it.

That’s why i’m a GoatOnAPolist

YEAH!!!!!!!!! Goatonapolism rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whatever that is lol

I cant believe ive never heard of this religion. I know a lot of religions though but ive never heard of this one

Methinks they are confusing wiccan and satanism.

i still dont get it. Are wiccans people who do magic

No, they are pagans.

uchh…really confused here

pa·gan (pā’gən) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially an adherent of a polytheistic religion in antiquity.
2. A Neo-Pagan.
3. Offensive
1. One who has no religion.
2. A non-Christian.
4. A hedonist.

Personally I’m rather blown away by everyones ignorance. I’m personally not involved in any religion but I do pretty much research every one of them. People hate wicans not because you worship “Satan” or not. But what Bruce said, because it’s generally attention starved teens who do it to be cool or different just to be different. If you’ve never looked at the bible you’ve already lost your argument because you don’t know anything about the other side. I don’t believe in witchcraft personally, but I do believe in spirituality so if you believe in something then it’s better then believing in nothing as long as you have something to fill your soul.

Wiccans are people who dance in circles and such. Their are many teirs to the religion it’s not really organised so it’s really rare to actually find someone who practices it. Like most things it’s easy to say you are then actually practice it.

oh…now I know what a pagan is…. but I kinda dont get what a wiccan is. Are they from africa? spain???

No, England, 1954.

American Heritage Dictionary
Wic·ca (wĭk’ə) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. A polytheistic Neo-Pagan nature religion inspired by various pre-Christian western European beliefs, whose central deity is a mother goddess and which includes the use of herbal magic and benign witchcraft.
2. A group or community of believers or followers of this religion.

[Old English wicca, necromancer; see witch.]

Why does everyoneone cite Christians as the ignorant ones? Is it because we aren’t up in arms against you when you insult us? I think the muslims are more ignorant then us. So plese do stop with the Christian bashing.

is it like a diffrent branch of christianity. Did someone make it up or something

Im just glad no one is atacking the jews!

ill bash every religion that has it ritten that u should hate any group for any reason. oh i dont think i was bashing anything btw

A retired civil something decided to make a “new” religion in England in 1954. No affiliation with Christianity.

Wow this thread has now lost all credibility. Who cares what religion you are, just be happy with it. Also no religion has anything written to hate anyone except maybe satanism, because it’s only for the strong.

Wasn’t refering to you mate. Anyway, Christianity never tells you to hate anyone.

yeah! old testement its everywhere there!

What type of Christians are they? And you obviously havent met a muslim.

Hey.. the old testiment is the jewish bible. STOP HATING JEWS

Darwin, please cite your example. Never in years of studying the bible have I read that.

Jews rock!!!

Yea, you have to be really careful about what type of Christian. The protestant groups tend to be a little out there.

Well your kind of throwing the blanket over an entire group. Christians are anyone who believe that christ is their savour. You do know their are sects that exist so your through YOUR ingnorance your condemning an entire group of people when it’s a select few.

“kill any man who lies down with another man”paraphrased there

Ok, that is hateful how?

And no paraphraseing allowed.

thats not in the jewish bible ( which is the old testimant)

not being a jerk to christian/jews, im vary glad they ownly worship bits of the vbible that arnt mean

What are you talking about, it isnt pick and choose.

Emily, it is in there in some form, not quite as Darwin put it though.

that paraphrase shows intolerance present in bibble, yeah, u dont worshipp the hole thing, other wise ud be stoning people

Not so, the ENTIRE BIBLE/ OLD TESTEMENT is held in high regard and anyone that says otherwise is a heretic. Intolerance for a reason, homosexuality has been shown to weaken the moral fiber of society.

That is a racist and not fair remark. Have you taken time to study the whole bible? Do you understand the whole picture. BTW im stuying exodus in school (i got to private jewish school) and we have never come acroos things about homosexuals

Its in Leviticus em.

And who is that comment directed to?

i was talkin to the person who was talking about the phrase from the jewish bible / old testament about homosexuals

The Goat Is On A Pole: http://www.goatonapole.com/

Teejay, I would be more than happy to oblige. Lets see what I can scrap together in a minute before going to bed. Today’s society, it has thrown the natural order of marriage and child rearing into chaos. I could rant on about this but shall not. Rome, homosexuality was practiced and what happened? Roman society started to degrade. Greece, I am not a vry good scholar at to tell the truth. I could cite several other examples and go more in depth. Im sorry if this post doesnt make sennse or present a solid argument to push home my point, I am falling asleep here. I look forward to seeing where this went tomorrow morning and if its still going I’ll try to e;aborate. Good night all.

g’ night

but rome l;asted 1000 years didnt fall for homosexuality, fell to invading germanic tribes, rebellion, bad leaders, not enough military guys to defend it and weakening of there economy

… what the christ. there is absolutely no connection between those two things, that’s like saying: that guy over there tripped and hurt his knee that’s why the building fell down. it doesn’t work. it’s not true work on whatever it is you are trying to say and get back to us in the morning.

You can’t be a Christian if you hate anyone. IF someone hate Wiccans, that’s their flaw, not the religion. I’m Christian and I’m taught to love all, even my enemies.

My God abhors idols.

Most people hate Wiccans becuase they are ignorant, and don’t actully know anythign about the religion.

Christianity: You can’t take everythign from the Old Tesitiment as being relevant. In Christianity things can change with the times. That’s why there are prophets to guide and direct the church. When Jesus came he changed up all kinds of stuff. Remember the whole “…it has been said eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth…Now I give unto you a new commandment to Love thier neighbor as thy self. Love Thy Enemy…etc Like I said, things change, not everythign is relevent.

Judaism: The Torah is comprised of the first 5 books of the bible. Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Dueteronomy. There are otehr texts along with this, but yes, this is the main Jewish Text.

Islam: Islam really is full of hate. Here are just a couple verses:

Chapter 2:
65 And certainly you have known those among you who exceeded the limits of the Sabbath, so We said to them: Be (as) apes, despised and hated.

114 For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next.

216 War is ordained by Allah.

174 Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom.

191 Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

Chapter 3:

10 Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire.

21 Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom.

196 Disbelievers will **********

Chapter 4:

6 Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars.

89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.

91 If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant.

138 For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom

Chapter 5:

3 Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom.

7 Christians will be burned in the Fire.

I could go on and on about this topic…

OMG - well this sure is interesting. Wiccans is the new version of Pagan. Could be called Witches - but do any of you actually know what Witches means or what they live by (believe me Witches is not what Hollywood makes us out to be! were not all warts - Im actually pretty! hahaha)
A lot of teens are interested in Wiccan as it is a belief where you are a bit more relaxed and its new and interesting. You dont have to go to a church, you can write your own rituals, you can do your own spells (which are like prayers) you can even have your own personal alter. Its a lot more personal and more individual than going on mass to a church to cleanse your soul coz of the choc bar you just ate! It is a belief that is popular and on the rise. Unfortuntley thou most peeps think your being different or Emo when you say Wiccan.

Hey Teejay, I will have to find the source later, but there was a biblical scholar who that the Sodom and Gemmorah story was not about homosexuality at all. It was about the battle the Jews were fighting or something. I’ll have to refresh my memory later.

One thing I found very interesting about religion, especially Chirstianity, is how there are such similarities to mythology and paganism. Many Christian holidays coincide with those of pagans:

Mithras or Mithra was the sun god of the Persians and the son of a virgin. He was born on the 25th of December. Christmas and Easter were two of the most important festivals of his church. His worshipers observed baptism, confirmation, and Eucharist supper at which time they would partake of their “god” in the form of bread and wine.

Adonis or Tammuz was born of a virgin and was the “savior” of Syria. He died in redemption for mankind and was later resurrected in the spring.

Osiris was the Egyptian’s god of the dead and the underworld, born of the “virgin of the world” on the 29th of December. He preached gentleness and peace. Wine and corn were both his discoveries. He was betrayed by Typhen, slain and dismembered. He remained in hell for two or three days and three nights. He would be the judge of mankind in a future life.

As for homosexuality destroying marriage and families, I think its heterosexuals that are mostly responisble for that. No one gets divorced because the guy down the street is gay. I have known people who are gay and hate it. They don’t WANT to be gay. It wasn’t something they chose.

To say it is unnatural, is not an arguement either. I’ve seen male dogs going at each other. What about the same gender Penguins, in some zoo I can’t recall now, that chose to be mates and parent together?

Personally, I think God put homosexuals on this earth to teach people tolerence, and it seems a lot of people are failing that lesson.

Nice answer Lapa … like the bit about God putting homosexuals on the Earth to teach tolerance! personally I think they’re great and bl**dy good friends!

I think wicca is a very interesting religion. One of my friends is wiccan and I went to one of her cerimonies. It was the start of the fall. The thing I love about it is that it’s all about the earth. There is a god or godess for every part of the earth. It’s awsome.
Like some other people said - people are afraid of what they don’t understand and turn that into hate. Also, the wiccan symbol or a variation of has been used in movies to symbolize devil worship. People who take the time to do the research know that wicca is not about the devil at all.

Short answer - christians (ESPECIALLY the so-called ‘christian leaders’) are intolerant idiots and like to sling mud against religions that are not their own.

But they do it out of love Marconius. Never forget that what they do they believe they do because they are following God the creator, are doing the RIGHT thing, and will be rewarded for these things.

Christianity is a way of life. It is political. It is personal. Its big and small. It’s got a lot of strictures and sometimes not so many. They “sling mud” because it is a defense mechanism to protect what they love so much… to protect themselves. A christian loses their identity to the great God/Jesus borg and anything they do as a collective is because of their bible worshipping/propogating.

Telling a Christian to be tolerant of others is like asking them not to live their life they want to. To deeply religious Christians, tolerance is letting others burn in the fires of hell.

Marconius in short. It might be annoying that it seems like they are idiots that condemn anyone who is different but remember it is the Jesus borg talking. :) Christians are plugged in… and I would like to think its OUR job to unplug them not hate them for spewing the brain food that has been forcefed into them.

x Sar

Glad to see the tolerant ones have chimed in. yay.

Atheism is a way of life. It is political. It is personal. Its big and small. It’s got a lot of strictures and sometimes not so many. They “sling mud” because it is a defense mechanism to protect what they love so much… to protect themselves. An atheist loses their identity to the great science borg and anything they do as a collective is because of their science worshipping/propogating.

Telling an Atheist to be tolerant of others is like asking them not to live their life they want to. To deeply indoctrinated atheist, tolerance is letting others burn in the fires of ignorance.

Marconius in short. It might be annoying that it seems like they are idiots that condemn anyone who is different but remember it is the science borg talking. :) Atheist are plugged in… and I would like to think its OUR job to unplug them not hate them for spewing the brain food that has been forcefed into them.

so, I just discovered that intolerance is nothing more than fill in the blank rhetoric. cool. wiccans are okay by me, old school witchs not so much.

http://www.urantia.org/

Marconius, please do tell me when in recent times that Christian leaders have been intolerant and slinging “mud”? I do believe that you are quite mistaken. If you want to talk about intolerence you should really focus on those fundemental Muslims. You know the ones that kill you if you don’t believe in Allah. As for Christian intolerance, would you call Pope John Paul II intolerant? If you do that is ignorance, he reached out to other religions groups and showed them acceptance. The public’s view of Christianity is so distorted that few actually know the facts and simply regurgitate what the media feeds them. So pray do make informed statements. On my own note, I must admit that the “gays destroy society” thing was not quite justified; I was half asleep and wasn’t feeling well.

Oh, sorry, I forgot to give credit where it was due. To find my examples, I did a quick google of pagan gods and Christianity, mortal immortal, etc. I couldn’t remember exactly which gods had the similarities. I just remembered sitting in Humanities Calss my junior year of college and realizing how it all sounded to similiar to the Jesus story and these were myths that existed before Jesus’s time. That’s when I bega a quest “for the truth.”
Anyway, for this post I clicked on one of the google results, then copied and pasted info from the site that seemed to have it all in one place. http://members.aol.com/IslamTeam/paga…

This is a site that argues for Islam. But oh well, it had the right sources.

Lapa, just want to point out that the early Christian church put the feast days on the pagan holidays for a reason. They were trying to make it easier for the pagans to convert. Some stories do have similarities as well.

cuz in the bible it says that wiccas fall in the cadergary of witchs and that u should stay away from them, because witchs are evil, and they worship the devil.

Listy, that is exactly the type of statement that makes Christians look bad. Look into the context and see what whitches are defined as in the Bible please.

seriously guys, why even bother with this debate? Religion i a deeply personal hing to many people and so is non-religion (athiests/ agnostics) realy no one here is going to read something someone has said and go “oh hey they are completely right, i geuss i belive in god now” (or vice versa) this is just a p*ssing match that no one can win. *some* christians are bad people just like *some* athiests are bad people, to condem an entire group of people based on the ignorance and bigotry exibited by *some* of the people is unfair and makes both sides look foolish.

Thats right Bruce. But I was trying to clear up a misconception. The actual Church, Roman Catholic, which catches so much flack and is the victim of so many misconceptions is really misunderstood. There is nothing saying that if you don’t believe in Jesus your going to hell, or if you are gay your going to hell. It is a really misunderstood area that is not helped by the anti Catholic bias.

anti catholic? it dont matter someones always anti something, and all groups have there haters

Bazibill,

I grew up Catholic, all my family still are Catholic. It what they believe. I’m glad for them. Although I do see my mom go through some unneccesary guilt. Anyway, yes I know that the feast days were matched to pagan feast days for a reason. And I’m not trying to convert anyone here. I do think, however, that there are so very many people out there who aren’t educated in their religion. They just believe because that’s what they were taught as a child. They refuse to look at anything objectively. Once they do, they can make an informed decision.

For me, it stopped making sense and when it was combined with the knowledge of mythology that were too similar to the Jesus story, especially the aspects that supposedly made him special, I could no longer pretend that I still believed. I often wish I could still believe, not because it would bring me spiritual comfort, but because I don’t fit in in American society.

And you are a rare soul to state, “There is nothing saying that if you don’t believe in Jesus you’re going to hell, or if you are gay you’re going to hell. It is a really misunderstood area.” That makes you a more peaceful and tolerant person. That kind of attitude helps the image of Christianity. But in the U.S. especially in the South, that is a very rare point of view. I generally hide my beliefs for fear of being ostracized ro harassed. I don’t feel safe around Christians, which is quite sad, since that’s not what Jesus stood for.

As for homosexuality, why is it that two people who love each other, real love not just lust, can’t have protection under the law the way married couples do, just because other people don’t like it or say it is a sin? It is their sin, which is between them and God. So let them be allowed to have their life partner make medical decisions the way a spouse would, let them inherit their partner’s money and share medical insurance and be the beneficiary of life insurance, and make decisions about where their loved one is buried.

Because there not real :? Neither are witches, god, Jesus, Santa, emos, punks, skaters, chavs, and any other title or label you give you self. Mystical creatures included.

there a true religion! there not a label or a fad!

As posted before: Because there not real :? Neither are witches, god, Jesus… look at the God or Jesus (now add Apollo, Zeus, Buddha and whatever god or religion you can think of.)

…. Buddha was a real person as was Jesus. Master, you are clearly uninformed and out of your element. Your point is weakened by your lack of actual knowledge into the the subject matter.

also, it’s they’re not there

Thank you Lapa. Don’t be afraid to say what you believe in, it builds your character. If you stand by what you believe people will respect you. As for homosexuals, I tolerate them. I don’t think they should have marriages but they can have unions with all the benefits, I know this doesnt make sense but to me marriage is a religious ceremony. But hey, they can have the union with benefite, I think that if they used the term union they would be more readily accepted in government politics. If they don’t bother me, I wont bother them, I might not agree what they do but I respect it. I sound prejudiced don’t I? Well, I don’t mean to so I do hope that no one takes it that way. In the south you have to be careful, mostly it is Baptists and other sects that are more out there. Just so everyone knows I am a Roman Catholic, say whatever you might. Just want to point out that Budda didn’t think of himself as a god, his teachings sorta got twisted as they moved north. The Japanese view him as a God but in India and such he is an enlightened philosopher.

I do not hate wiccans. It’s hard to hate wiccans when I myself know very little about the practice itself. It’s like the quote my family uses and from everyone else don’t tell other people they have problems when you have problems. That would be like me telling you that wiccan sucks because you study it, but I don’t believe in anything. Did that make sense? O.o” Anyways if you study it I see no problem if you believe in it and do his work thats another thing and I think thats what we fear most is that it will surcome to that.

“Bruce comes in with a left, a right, and another right. blamo, his opponent goes down” crowd cheers

Its funny how some assume because one does not believe the way they do that others have not educated themselves about their own religion.
One could not however educate themselves on all religions to really know for sure that they got all the information they needed.

fear.that’s why. People fear what they do’t understand, ad they hate what they fear.

i think for most people just the thought of someone saying that they will put a spell on u is a scary thought!!! its the same with vodoo in the haitian culture…

Most Wiccans believe in the Rule of 3 - what thee gives out comes back to thee. In other words a nasty spell will come back and bite you in the butt. Our Spells are basically prayers - just we dont put our hands together

It wasn’t lectures that brought me to my AH! HA! moment. It was reading these ancient works that predate Christ. So you see, collectively, I saw that Jesus was not that unique as a deity.

Buddah taught love and individualism. Banzbill I also interpret humans as making the claim that Jesus was God. Jesus’ own words that we are all brothers and that we all could do his works and greater. He referred to himself as the Son of Man (not God). Again, I do believe Jesus was real. And I read his message to be that he is divine and so are we. I see Satan as a word for ego. If I follow my ego, I am not listening to the divine.

As for education, people need not study every religion. However, many demoninations ignore (or don’t know) the FACT that the Bible was put together by a Catholic Pope, that their religion is rooted in catholicism.

Also, it seems that most Christians don’t know or don’t want to know that there were more than four Gospels. It was the Pope in about 1 A.D. who tossed out the Gospels of Thomas and Philip and many many others, because they did not claim Jesus’s divinity or because he thought they weren’t as popular as the four he put in the “official Bible.” HE picked four, because he thought there are four corners of the earth.

Most Christian’s also seem unaware that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John most likely did NOT write the Gospels themselves, that they were written AFTER Jesus ascended, that they are not first-hand accounts, that those who wrote the Gospels, “according to John, ect.” had probably never seen or heard Jesus for themselves. These were stories that had been passed down verbally, and that info from two or three of the “official” Gospels was influenced by the first, Mark, if I remember correctly.

Now, my point is, after knowing all that and a person still finds that the religion rings true to the soul and heart (”The new covenant with God will be written in the hearts of man.”), then that’s a true believer and is right for that person, but he must recognize it doesn’t resonate with all souls and shouldn’t tell other people they are wrong. This applies to all beliefs. (I’m not implying that anyone posting does that.)

BELIEFS
The central idea of Wicca is that the Goddess and the God are revered, just like in any other religion.

Many, but not all, Wiccians believe in reincarnation. The soul will return many times, but the reasons why can be unknown, or can be due to the idea of Karma.

Everything you send comes back times 3. This means that if you do good, good will come back threefold; if you do harm, harm comes back to you threefold. This, for obvious reasons, is often called the Threefold Law.

Wiccians accept that every religion is right to its adherents. There is no “right” or “wrong” religion, even if you happen to disagree with said religion. This can also be applied to accepting people of other backgrounds and races. It’s accepting what’s different and not judging it, or degrading it because it’s different from your own ways and thoughts.

The Earth is our home, our Goddess and God. It’s not a tool. This is a basic respect for the Earth, and a call to treat it with respect and preserve it. (all of the Wiccians that I’ve talked to have this same viewpoint)

RULES

Harm None. This applies to the environment, other people, animals, yourself.

Treat things with respect.

The Goddess and the God are desrving of worship, they have given us our life, our world and magic. Treat them with respect, observe their holidays and remember the ritual days.

NO Bloodshed. No bodily fluids of any sort, from any source should be spilled in the ritual circle, or at any time. It goes along with the harm none rule.

Observe the holidays. Be sure to hold a ritual, or a prayer, or chant on the
holidays. This one goes along with worshiping of the Goddess and God.

Magic should only be used in times of need, and never for any harm. Magic can be used for personal gain, as long as you don’t harm anybody. Magic can also be used to help others, and that is when (for me) it seems to work the best.

Learn from all sources. You can use books, other people, nature, as long as you learn something. Knowledge can come from many surprising sources. This something can be scholarly, or spiritual.

Mock not the rituals and ways of others. No one person is right or wrong.

The rules may be changed when the need arises, as long as they don’t violate the rule of harm none. As you grow, so will the rules.

Teach those willing to learn, for free.

Don’t take money for magic. If you do a spell to help someone, do it for free, and not for gain. The reward should be helping someone, not money.

Secrecy. Many covens and individuals still follow the rule of secrecy. They don’t give out anything, the rules or beliefs or rituals. In my opinion, the rules and beliefs can be told, so non-Wiccians know what Wicca is, and won’t misunderstand it.

This is not witchcraft, and I think a lot of the misunderstanding and hate comes from the association with witchcraft, which is and has been used for evil purpose. And the association has been ,ade by both wiccans and non wiccans. so some of the blame falls also on wiccans that are ignorant of their own belief systems

http://paganwiccan.about.com/cs/whati…

I am not Catholic but I do know that there are early christian writings that prove they were the first christians. They were thoroughly Catholic in the way they believed & their practices.
Although its not for me & I do believe there are some things that have went astray in the Catholic religion, it is still a very rich spiritual religion that is deeply rooted with wonderful prayers & rituals.

My bad, I should have been more specific about who put the Bible together. I was referring ONLY to the New Testament.

Mary is NOT considered a diety. Again, that is very misunderstood. She was considered a human who was not tainted by sin and who received special treatment by God and was assumed into heaven, meaning she did not die.

And Catholics don’t worship Mary or any other saint. They ask them to pray on their behalf, because the more people (souls) praying for something the better.

And by rooted in Catholicism, I mean very specifically that modern Christianity came directly from the Catholic church. There were other sects of Christianity that died out long ago perhaps due to the power of the Church and the influence it had in politics. It wasn’t until after Martin Luther nailed his list of diputes on the Cathedral in Wittenburg, Germany in 1517, did other denominations break off from the Catholic Church.

It was Irenaeus, bishop of Lyon, (not pope, my bad) around 180 A.D.who decided there would be only four Gospels, and excluded what are known today as the Agnostic gospels.
Go here to find a chronology of the Bible.
www. asia.si.edu/exhibitions/online/ITB/html/chronology.htm

Banz, Back to the Homosexual marriage thought. I too believe we should jst call it a civil union, only because so many people can’t get past their dislike of homosexuals living together as a couple. However, I can also understand their point that by calling it a civil union, it is somehow less important than a marriage.

You stated that you beleive marriage is sacred. But athiests are allowed to get married. People have secular marriages all the time, they just don’t have it blessed by God. And in case anyone argues that a marriage between heterosexuals is more important than between homosexuals because of the production of children, not all married couples have children. So while I understand how it offends your thought of sacredness, I also understand the other side of the argument.

When I say marriage has a religious connotation it is a religious term. People that have secular “marriages” actually have a civil union. Thats what my aunt and uncle did. I don’t understand why people think that one is higher than the other, they both achieve the same end.

there synonyms basicly so u can say a straight couple is in a civil union, or a gay couple is marrided

Not really, marriage implies that it is a religiously affiliated union.

But don’t you get a marriage license whether you get married in a church or in a secular ceremony.

not really, as ive said (this is the billionth time!) language is fluid, and definitions change. Anyway there lobbying for full marrige rights in a legal sense not a religious one

Yes, you do. But there is some play with the word. THat is the main stopping point. So then they are going for a CIVIL UNION.

with ALL the perks of marryed ppl, and they want acepttence, instead of disgust or hatye

weird this supposted to be about wiccans too lol

Lol, we hijacked the thread.

Okay, I get that in the when it’s blessed by God, it’s marriage and secular it’s a civil union. However, marriage is what our government calls both. So what you are saying is they should not have their ceremony done in church, right?

Yes, but I am learning about Wicca and more!

Exactly, and the Church wouldn’t allow it anyway. Just a side note, our government was founded on religion so it will never be completely secular.

As long as it’s tolerant of all beliefs I can live with that.

no jefferson was never for religion and gov mixing, which im glad cauz religion+ gov= awful mess

Jefferson wasn’t the only one who formed our government. Just a rehash though : On money “In God we trust”; Pledge of alligence “One nation under God”; ect.
You cannot say it is completely secular. And when is gov’t and religion always an awful mess?

under god was added in 1954, u know

Yes I do. Its still in there though.

One of the reasons the country was founded was for the freedom of religious expression, not any one religion,though. That’s where teh mess comes in, when our governmental reps are focused on only their own beleifs.

Lapa, you are mistaken. That is the modern interpretation. The founding fathers actually wanted it to be centered in christianity, which it was for many many years.

then that wasnt to smart of the founding fathers then

Is there an academic or other reliable source where can I find that information? Sorry, I was a journalist for a while. “Source is everything” was drilled into my head.

Actucally it was. They were all some form of Catholics, the modern government is still mostly Christian, that was their world back then. Lapa, I did have a reliable source but din’t know where it was from, but I can say it was from some dusty old american history book. Don’t worry about the journalism part, I know how it is.

u havnt explained how thats smart tho

They viewed it as everyone would know and follow the beliefs that were domianant. It was a system that worked. It doesn’t really make sense to your 21st century mind, you have to think like they did in the 18th century. Its sorta hard to explain.

if it was so great then, then its antiqidaded and useless know

Now it is antiquated because people are more loose then they were back then, so many things people do today were taboo then.

anyway this is of topic, but who has a good book they recommend?

What type of books do you like reading?

The fact of the matter is: church and state are seperate, religion should hold no power over govt. as such the religious deffinition of marraige should not have any influence on the state definition, the foundng fathers made our counrty such that the laws can change with time because they understood that different times call for different laws. To call marraige a civil union sets a dangerous precident and makes it seem inferior.

(the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy is awesome)

book can be bout anything really as long as its intersting

Fiction or nonfiction?

eitherjust depends on my mood

I would recomend the Aubrey/Maturin Series by Patrick O’Brian if you can learn quickly.

Suspense : The Absence of Nectar, but Kathy Hepinstall. It’s a few years old, but very good.

Leaning a little more to the literary: Just about anything by Elizbeth Berg. I especially liked What We Keep. OR anything by Mitch Albom– Tuesday’s with Morrie (nonfiction) “The Five People you Meet in Heaven” and “For One More Day”

Sort of along the lines of self help nonfiction anything by Wayne Dyer.

Young Adult: The Lightening Thief and Sea of Monsters, two in a series by someone I can’t remember. I read it with my kids and I actually got into it and couldn’t wait for the next chapter.

Why I hate wiccans? That’s so complicated story. I knew some of them, and they made me something very annoying. I can’t cope with my agression against You, Wiccans. So, let’s get the party started. Rules of this religion sounds beutifully, love, peace, and everything positive. But… What’s about reality? Who You REALLY are, Wiccans? In Poland pagan people have got a blogs, where they write about themselves in peculiar way. They show their individuals in superlatives, make themselves equal to moon, stars, sun, highest peaks. Equal to God. So, I know, I am so untorelant :P The second thing: this religion hasn’t got fundamental morality. Everything must be TESTED, often on innocent people. In wicca, if you do something, it will return to you three times. But is it a consolation for me, when this knife would be back to my killer, if I am just dead? Those people can don’t tell “I’m sorry”,only go ahead without regretting, and wait for their punishment. If they want. Everything on this world is subordinated by their wishes or aversions. Third thing: Wiccans in my area fell attacked by Christians, but it is no problem for them to attack Christian Church firstly. :D
Fourth: unfortunately Wicca is not a “basic” religion. The present behaviour of exemplary pagan person depends of her morality shaped in the past. Other religions teach, what is good, or bad. Not everybody has got “good heart” or conscience. In wicca all kinds of behaviour are justified. Somebody from pathological environment has no chance to experience, what is normal, what we shouldn’t do.
CDN.
Sorry for my bad English, I am not a British, and American person and I can make lot of language mistakes. Finishing: is there a wiccan person, who will make my dislike a bit smaller?

me … ask and I will answer - shout and I will ignore

Thank You. People, who I have met, escaped every time I wanted to ask for something. When they (I suspect) didn’t know the answer, they told me I am stiupid, prowincional, bounded and I must find answer by myself. I am really not an intolerant person, as a child I played with small Koreans, who were Buddhists(in Poland, where were not too much foreginers, like in France, Germany, England or US), and there was no problem, I have atheistic friends and part of family- it is no problem, I met people- Hare Krishna believers (they have got a good food:p)- and it was no problem, Jehowa Witness in class- no problem. Satanism too don’t make me sick as well as Wicca. Why: all religions above has got clear principles. Wiccans I knew was very uncertain people, really unpredictavable. One day they love you, other they kick you *** and remove from their lives. And you can’t protest, it’s their Own Decision, and Decisions are saint.
Tell me firstly, Ditzy, what is the most important in Your religion? The major worth? Isn’t it Yourself? And please, don’t escape like others. I don’t know, why, Wiccans afraid of discussion and can’t cope with the critique about their actions.

Hahaha … typical escaping the questions! just pls go easy on me! hahaha.
My religion is Paganism. I follow the old ways and rest everything around me. The most important thing to me is that it is personal and changes with me (no offence meant to any body) but I get more out of it than simply attending a church sevrice where some body else has prepared everything! I can do what I want. Say a prayer, do a spell, general say thanx etc … its not just some passage from a book that peeps are supposed to learn from - mine is more a lifes lesson. It is also more spiritual and more about learning and making mistakes rather than trying to cleanse myself from my mistakes!
Not sure what you mean by major worth? and isnt it myself? can you repharse … pls bear with my (slightly dyslexic)

Oops - respect everything around me! d’oh - the should have idiot check before I hit the send reply button! hahaha
Dont get why they love you 1 day then hate you the next! think thats prolly just some thing personal and is not the way most Wiccans act! ahahaha …

But, You see, that’s a difference between Wicca and other religions. Following the wiccan rules, they can do all those disgusting things and it is justified. Nothing is banned. They may be nice, caring and loving all the world, but they don’t must. There’s no obligation. Finally they realize, what is good or bad for society ( it is almost the same as good and old list of sins;)), but how many corpses must lie down all along the way of life, before they learn how to behave? It looks litlle bit childish- everybody must test by himself, “what would happen, when I crush the frog”? Too much depends on individual fancy. And everything is ratified.
You told You could do everything You want, but without offending others. How do you realize, what is harmful for others?
Other topic: just this those people had’nt had told me anything about their religion, and later they had a fun I didn’t know.

Ok and breath - said I would not reply to shouting and your getting darned close but I shall continue.
There is a difference between Wicca and others yes. But how can you say that wot we do is unjustified? … surely celebrating that some body killed them selves so we could go on sinning is a bit weird? I would mention others but I dont like to slander others religions … it is against my oath and my religion/belief.
Nothing is wrong if done for the right reasons. There is no evil in this world only the evil that human kind creates.
Im not sure wot kinda Wiccan peeps you have been hanging out with but they sure sound like they dont know wot they are doing! would love for you to spend a day with me. I would take you thru the summer ritual my fav.
Who are you to tell us how to behave? sure we must learn from our own mistakes. Who knows what happens when I crush the frog - unless I crush the frog? how do you think human kind learnt so much about surgery and stuff?
What is harmful about what I do? does it hurt you? I have never hurt anything … never in the name of my belief - its in my oath and promise!
Not sure what the question is here … try breathing and asking a question that may be relevant.

Ohhhh, I agree with miss Doodler. She seems to know a great deal about this religion. But to answer the question of the post, I don’t see any satan worshiping what so ever in wicca. Only satanism I think is the only religion that follows the devil.

What’s about this frog? If all people on the world would to test crushing amphibian, those animal would be exstinct.:P Why we should kill milion of frogs instead of only few ones?
Wicca is very complicated to definize. There are a lot of possibilities, how to behave. You possibly are a very good person and I could accept You . There are a lot of things, which You would never do. Have You ever reflected, where Your conscience come from? What is a root? Wicca don’t shape nothing, only beats down doors, which have been opened earlier.
I am not seeing nothing bad in rituals and form of this religion. And it would be interesting to see few of them. Only the rules make me a little bit scared. My well-known wiccans, who loved more first better birch than their faithful friends, are sanctioned to do me IT. In other religion it would be seen like sin or cruelty. In Poland is a adage: “Polander is clever after damage”.
Who I am to tell You, how to live? Is not me, only experience of ancestors. Only God.
Wicca in good arms is not dangerous. But imagine, how it works in other realisation. When the characterically weak, not so intelligent, complexed, selfish person starts to be neopagan.

Wiccableh,

You say,”Wicca in good arms is not dangerous. But imagine, how it works in other realisation. When the characterically weak, not so intelligent, complexed, selfish person starts to be neopagan.”

Substitute the name of any religion for Wicca and neopagan, and it is true.

So you have shown yourself that you should not label an entire group.
Every religion has it’s people who use it for love, and every religion has those who use it for hate.

The moral to this story? Judge individuals by their character, not by their beleifs.

Oh, no, master. Christianism, Buddhism or other religions in bad hands stop to be themselves. Wicca in bad hands is still Wicca.
In neopagan religions character is more important than in other ones. And I have observed that blogs with wiccans’ memories are almost identical. So I think, that wicca is followed by people with similar personality.
Best wishes for Ditzy and Det. Mills- I hope that You don’t feel offened. We must discuss about everything, maybe You would learn something new how the wicca is perceived in various environments. If I tell something false- tell me. There’s a lack of information. And “my” neopagans can be only silly posers. Tell me, where the wicca begins and where it ends, if You could.

Lapa, czy Ty czasem Polakiem nie jesteś?

Just a question, Ditzy. How do you know about the OLD pagan ways? Which pagan ways? Roman, Greek, Egyption, Gaelic, Norse? I believe you mean the modern interpretation of Wicca. Anywho, there is more to Christianity than just going to mass. There is alot of inner spirituality and other things you can do. Most people don’t know about much about it. I say Christianity because we are the only religion that has church.

Are you asking if I am Polish?

hmmm, this is getting too tense. NEW QUESTION: whats your favorite color?

you don’t say? well that most be akward i mean with the waffles, your fiance and the cow

I like black, and You?

:p

Soz I had not replied yet. Was not running away.
Thanx for the discussion Wiccablah. I really dont mind talking about it. But at the end of the day you may believe in you religion and I have mine. I will respect your religion and hope for the same in turn. Stay safe Friend.
As for the answer Wicca does not start nor does it end. It is with you as you learn and grow. It is with you thru the mistakes and the good times. It does not give you a get out clause by simply attending a ritual to cleanse your soul! It expects you to deal with you mistakes and learn. There is not such thing as bad and good … but there is morals and the way you should live. Example: I could squish that frog for the heck of it - moraly I know it is wrong to do so, but my religion would not say never mind! it would say you have squished a frog it is your fault, you now need to right that wrong. k think that answers the Q from Wiccableh.
Welcome to the Q&A session Lapa - same applies to you - ask and I will reply, shout and I will ignore. I ask that anything done here is respectful and done with an adult attitude.
I appreciate your comment about Christainity being more spiritual than first looked at on the can - however. I have been down the Christain route. I was baptisted and Confirmed and yet it still did not seem right or fit. I did not feel at ease in a church or anything other place of worship until I stepped into my sacred circle - where I could finally be me! Christainity felt like the easy way out to me [ed: other peeps feelings may differ] and where was the female aspect? I needed that female aspect and not just some little chapel on to side. Sorry if this offends - Im just telling me experience! It felt wrong to worship some person - to get on my knees and worship. In my darkest hours I have not needed some body to look up to or look down on me but to be beside me crying too. Hope you can understand this.
Right in answer to your Q. I learnt most of what I know by word of mouth from other Pagans. I spent some time living with an Astaru and learnt what it was all about. I also had a couple of friends who were Wiccans I learnt with them. I then found my reiki mommy who taught me so much in such a small space of time, more about listening to my soul more than anything else. I also meet a spiritual lady who knew so much and was a healer and listener in the truest form. I also know from simply standing with my 2 feet planted firmly on the ground and listening to nature and myself. I cannot say exactly wot background I feel drawn too but I do like using ogam stick more than cards and natural herbs and I cant meditate to drums! think that is leading more to Celtic. Not sure - I have never questioned it as I have never felt the need too. I have always done what I have felt is right - and if it felt wrong I did not try it again.
Why try and force yourself to walk in stilettos when your used to hiking boots? and why question it - if it feels more comfy then stick with it.
Wiccableh & Monster: my fav colours are reds and browns (althou I do look really good in green too) :oP

Wiccableh,

what did you mean here?
“Lapa, czy Ty czasem Polakiem nie jesteś?” Am I sometime of Pole?

I don’t hate Wiccans

Thanx Disco - I dont hate Wiccans either! we could start a fan club! lol … joking

Yes, Lapa. I’ve asked about it.

Thank You, Ditzy, too. That’s obvious You have got Your religion and I have mine. And nobody want to be converted in other religion. I only want to learn more about wicca, get rid of anger. Now I want to establish hierarchy in Your beliefs. Who is center of the world? Who is the most important? And which value is on the top?

Cool - glad we are reading from the same page Wiccableh! will consider you a friend … if thats ok? :o) nice to know that you want to learn instead of anger!
Right - now here’s where things differ a lot! As Wiccans we dont really have a set hierarchy (big word! lol) We do have a God and a Goddess and most of us believe in a collective All. However these God’s can be any deity we think would be best for the task - usually fitting in to region like Greek, Druid, Native American. For example Athena the Greek Goddess is good for knowledge spells/wishes/prayers but she would not be very good to call up on if you needed healing! however Apollo would be good for Healing but not good if you needed help in winning any type of fight.
For me personally - there is the All that encompasses everything after that I use the Sun for my God and the Moon for my Goddess they are pretty much my topper. If I ever need to talk to some body abt some thing or say thanx I usually say it to them. Their are not some thing I look up to (spiritually) but some thing that is beside me on my journey thru life! If Im doing a spell (which has to be pretty tough for me to do a spell - most things I like to fight for) I will choose a deity to plea too for help. They are usually below the topper in the spiritual tree.
Hope this makes sense! lol

Sounds like alot of I I I’s to me

Hey Anon - glad you joined (kinda knew you would at some point) pity you feel that you had to post it anonymously - I would not have attacked you about anything! Im open to questions and comments. No need to hide in this post - we’re being honest and open, in order to learn. Still never mind.
It certainly does sound like a lot of I I I’s and Me Me Me’s. This is because Im not millions of Wiccans. I am 1 Pagan sharing my belief with people who have questions. I cannot speak for what they have done or do. However I can shed some light on what they do and how they do it but this is all. By giving my personal experiences and insights I hope to clear up some of the misconceptions of Wiccan’s.

Ditzy,

I must say the few Wiccans I have encountered have been very loving. I was in teh military with one, who explained that she came from a long line of Wiicans and that each had a gift. Hers was the gift of healing. And what I saw one day left me a little dumbstruck. Her toddler had fallen on the sidewalk and smacked his forehead really hard. Left a dent in the concrete, I think :). Any she quickly scooped up her crying child, calmly took him inside and about 10 minutes later they returned. He was calm and happy and there was absolutly no bump on his forehead. No redness, no forming bruise, no scratch. NOTHING! It was as if the incident had never happened.

She helped me a few times with migranes and severe neck and shoulder pain.

Nice to hear that you have had such good encounters! Wiccans are very gentle to everything and do not like to hurt a soul! you are right there!
Sounds like she may have trained or should train in Reiki. This is not a religious thing but I would recommend it to any body who wants to investigate healing.

Thank You.I understand, but I want to know, who , You mean, is higher: God and Godness or Your own person. I am not as angry as at the beginning. I think I slowly understand, why I have been agressive, when I have heard about wiccans or pagans. I’ve met and observed people with stereotypical personality, they has few main types of behaviour. I hope, You are not one of them. Firstly they was obsessed, if anybody want control them and tell them, what they should do. Talking about their religion and telling own opinion was submitted by words: “You manipulator!” Secondly they , I said above, didn’t tell me nothing about their rituals ect., and after they had a lot of fun of my “stiupidity”, treated me like something worse, which will never understand their complicated feelings and thoughts. And they start to make distance between them and “grey proletariat” especially catholics, subcultures and anonymous people without “higher aspiration”. Next it was the way they judged me. I was told SURELY behave by one way, if I am christian, and SURELY do them something evil or laugh at them. They looked stereotypically at my person, and THEY started this dislike. I wasn’t intolerant at the beginning, but they made me anger, and anger, every time. Is it Wiccan?
Cholera, in Polish I could explain it better.

Hey - its no problem to be ansering Q’s!
Neither of the God’s or me are higher. My God’s are not some thing I look up to but some thing that walks beside me on my path. Neither of us is higher than the other. Difficult to understand but this is how I feel and so do most Wiccans.
Sounds like you have had a very bad encounter with Wiccans. We are not like that at all. They do spells and rituals and divination and things like that. But they should not act violent towards you for any reason. We are a gentle folk. We try to accept every body and every thing for what it is! We accept Gay people, or people who have a different religion from our own, young or old people … anything you name it. The only thing we really dislike is people that harm others like murderers, pedophiles and so on.
When you enter the Wiccan belief you should take an oath or promise ritual. This is like being Confirmed in Christainity for a quick explaination. Within this ritual its is usually said that you shall harm none and accept other religions with out slandering or hating them. It does not say that our religion is right or wrong or the best. That is wot Wicca is in a nutshell.
I do not know why they pushed you away and made you hate them but I feel like what they did was wrong. They should not have pushed you away like that. Looks like they are doing completely the wrong thing and making the Wiccan and other religion divide bigger! Sorry to have heard that you have been treated so badly by others in my circle.

Wiccableh,

If a person truly believes in loving and honoring all living things, it doesn’t matter who they report to, themselves or a deity. I have encountered many people from various religions and a variety of Christian denominations, who report to God or some supreme being, who don’t love and respect all things living, much less all humans. You ran into some people who were allowing their egos to rule their actions, instead of following their higher spiritual selves. Just as we are told not to judge all Muslems by the extemeists, don’t judge every person associated with any religion by those who misbehave.

Nicely said Lapa … anything in wrong hands is dangerous. Also just coz some body of a different religion belief does some thing wrong does not mean that its the religion that made them do it wrong.
:oD

Lapa “their higher spiritual selves”?

Yes, their soul, connection to god, whatever you want to call it. It’s the opposite of ego, which is grounded in the physical.

Oh I see…you mena the Holy Spirit

if were taking bout christianity anyway

Well that’s your interpretation. My interpretation is the soul, the part of me that “hears” God. When I am doubtful or fearful or wanting things my way, that is my ego talking to me, rather than my soul (the eternal part of me).

Make any sense to you, anon?

Well to me thats not my interpretation but that is Jesus’s when he says:

John 14;26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

But I suppose you must not have choosen this verse for your beliefs?

Makes sense to me Lapa. Listening to your true self. Not the ego that wants wants wants.
Your quote does make sense Anon (wishing you would still trust us enuf to be able to post with out being anon) Listening to the true self, the calling to your path, and the wisdom that is sought.
(not trying to convert - just pointing out) Have you ever noticed how identical and close some religions are? how some things seem to cross all boundaries? so maybe that quote does apply to us/Wiccans but it is said in different words and found in different ways. (wow deep scared myself there! hahaha)
It is not a case of choosen - it is a case of knowing and listening to that call.

why won’t this thread die.

Die, die die! hahaha. Its just getting good now ladies and gentlemen.

My words weren’t intended to offend, Anon. I just meant your interpretation of what I had said.

What did I say that made you think I was offended? I am not offended & I hope you are not either. Im just trying to understand better. I have to go through some of the contadictions or what I percieve as the contradictions in order to at least try to see what your seeing.

Please answer the question with this verse so we can continue but feel free to stop if you feel uncomfortable:

John 14;26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

But I suppose you must not have choosen this verse for your beliefs?

It was just a little shell shock from something that happened with another person, someone I inadvertantly offended.

Anyway. No I did not choose that verse for my beliefs. What I meant was each individual’s soul, the part of them that is eternal, the part that can hear what God or the Holy Spirit is telling them as opposed to ego, that part of them that want,wants, wants and doesn’t care whether it hurts another or not. Perhaps in your beliefs, you would see ego as that part that is listening to satan. Does that make better sense?

Im not sure I understand the question. You have asked it before and I thou I had answered it.
I do not feel uncomfortable and shall continue but if you could phrase the questions easier I would be grateful.
Bearing in mind that 1 sentence can be interpreted in completely different ways as well however. Remember I can say tomatoe and you will say tom’ato!
I have interpreted that verse/quote as learning from your higher being. listening and learning. We listen to our God’s and nature and everything around us. So we have choosen not to learn it in your religion but within our own.
Hope this helps.

Ditzy Im just asking if this verse fits into your beliefs?
Im also wondering how you decide which ones apply to your life. And when you choose a belief for your own, how do you define the diffenence of knowing whether this is a true belief or an interpertaion?

Yes in a way it does fit in to my belief. I listen to my inner person and nature and God’s.
I have not decided on which verse’s fit in to my life. A friend gave me the rules (which AKS I think? posted above) which I abide by. These are the rules FULL STOP. Not to be broken. These are our verses. We do not have a bible.
I came across Wiccan with a friend. She was talking about it and I got interested. The more I learnt beside her the more it made sense to me and felt right. It was when I was doing my 1st ritual that everything fell in to place and I knew it was right for me. I have not looked back since.
The last Q how do you define the diffenence of knowing whether this is a true belief or an interpertaion? how do you know that Christainity or any other main stream belief is a true belief? answer/truth is we dont. But you must do what feels right to you. Why force yourself to wear stilettos if your much more comfy in hiking boots.

ditzy, Ok please bear with me, so that i can understand further:
Who made these rules? See this is really confusing for me cause so many non chritians feel like the bible was made by man & should not be taken seriously.

And I know this is going to sound insulting but if your choosing the verses from where ever you see fit, are you not in the end worshiping yourself?

I appreciate the answer to the last question. It does have some merrit in the fact we all do choose our own religions or beliefs or non beliefs for that matter. But in the same token I choose to believe by faith. It is what I am grounded in. If I didnt believe it was true how could I rely on it? Other wise its a very rocky, unstable ground to be on.

Sometimes we force ourselves into stilettos because it is the right choice, even if its not the easiest one. I dont think the answer to everything in life is always the easiest. Kind of like when we choose the road less traveled.

Bearing with you.
Im not truly sure who made the rules but I do know that they are old and valid and know in my gut that they are good rules to live my life by. I have not said that I do not believe in the bible because it was written by man but I simple believe that my life should not be lived by a book - by some body elses experiences. Life should be lived and you should learn as much as possible. Hope this answers that Q.
Im not worshiping anything - I do not believe in worship. I believe in belief. I believe that there is God’s out there and rules and things I cannot explain. Maybe I am following myself - but is that not right? listening to myself and wot I need. Is that a bad thing in your eyes? not such how you made the connection abt me listening to my own verses, my own life. Was not offended btw - takes a lot to upset me at times.
I believe that wot I do feels right to me. You feel that wot you do you also believe in. What right do I have to say yours is wrong and vice versa? does it really matter whos may be wrong. I believe in wot I believe in. I feel that mine is not unstable - whereas some body looking from the outside may view it as unstable. Hope that makes sense.
So by that last statement - are you saying that I should force myself to be Christain because its right, even thou it would not feel right? does not make much sense. So are you saying that my belief is the easy option out? even thou I find it easier to believe coz it feels right? that statement is completely wrong. Sorry to say. I have not taken offence but just think that is a mad way to think! :o)

It just really does seem like alot of I I I’s in this sort of belief to me. Non christians (not necessarily you) often think we are so closed minded & I think thats funny in a way because we get our beliefs through other people, books, the main being the bible who many have written & a persoanl relationship with God.
As far as unstable goes, I mean I know sometimes I myself can be my worst enemy. I am forever changing. I am not saying that I am without value by anymeans but God I know I can count on. He has always been the same, always. Man has changed & some of his perceptions on religion have changed & so on by God has never changed & always remain & for myself I find comfort in that. I like to know there is someone, a higher being that I can count on.
As for the last comment. lol. I think I am mad (as in crazy) sometimes lol. All the more to trust God. lol.

Well Im glad I have answered the Q’s you did have. If you think of any more please feel free to ask on here or if its more private in my shout box. Its a pity that so many people are closed minded (not you as you have proved in this post) Im sure if many more people were open minded a lot of todays violence would never have happened. Still we are the future and must work to make tomorrow better.
We all can be our worst enimies at times. Glad that you have your feet so well settled on the ground and feel that you can count on your God to be with you and find comfort in that. Every now and then we need some one/some thing to rely on. Your God has always been there as a constant, and my God’s have changed with me as I have grown and changed in my needs. But they are both valid.
Hahahaha abt the Mad/Crazy comment - aren’t we all a bit Mad/Crazy some times?! lol
Good luck in life Anon - Brightest Blessings Ditz X

Oh, what I see, nice discussion without me. :D I am just reading and going to join.;)

Hahaha - well it is still open … your more than welcome!

Hmmm…I think… And my brain is exhausted because today is Monday:P Loading, loading…
And I don’t want talk about small differences… I can You tell, how some people can manipulate wicca to feed their egos and id’s. And show the danger, which it can be for everybody, who really believe in wicca. Do You all want?

Know about Monday work day melt down! harsh isnt it.

I understand about peeps who listen to their egos more than they actually follow the Wicca path. The peeps who seem to be wrapped up in it all and curse at you. I believe this is petty. I would never curse at any 1 - I might say ooooh that Z I cannot believe s/he some times and swear a bit but I would never do a spell against any body! it is totally against what Wiccas believe in.

However to follow the Wiccan path does not mean Danger. It is a gentle faith which is why I cannot understand why we get attacked so much and have so much distrust. We believe in everything that is good and worth fighting for. It is hard to be Wiccan some times you know.

“Danger”- I mean as, (my English is not so good), that those people make bad opinion about Your religion. And after many innocent people after are attacked and hated. I don’t see now danger in Your own person. Communication in English -I find it difficult today.

I am sorry for misunderstanding you. I do not mind that your English is not great. If I ever take some thing the wrong way I do apologise. I know you are tired and English is apparently the hardest language to learn.
So you mean people spreading nasty rumors about Wicca that are not true and because of this inocent Wiccans are being attacked because of this. Right I understand you.
I want to clear up some of the misunderstandings about Wiccan. Show people that they really have nothing to wrong about.

Oops - typoe - Show people that they really have nothing to worry about

I don’t hate Wiccans. I know only a little bit about them and should probably take some time to find out more about them. Wiccans seem pretty harmless to me. But… Wiccans are different and unusual–I don’t mean that in a negative way. Different and unusual in the sense that there are few of you, and people know little about you. And most people have a hard time accepting anything or anyone they perceive as unusual or that are new to them. Now, _I_ have problems with much that is familiar wrt religion. This is so because I know much about them and I don’t like what I’ve seen in them. The more I interact with and talk to people who embrace these familiar religions, the less I respect them.

Banzibill: A way long time ago when I replied on this post, I simply replied saying WHY there are alot of people that don’t like wiccans.
I gave an excuse that I hear from alot of people, I didn’t say that, that was the reason that everyone hates wiccans. In my personal I don’t think that anyone should hate them, because people who read that, and treat wiccans badly, haven’t read the part of the bible where it says don’t hate the sinner, hate the sin.

Now Im not try to say that I know anything about wiccan, Because I know nothing about it. And To tell the truth I haven’t read much of the bible, but from what I learned in sunday school, and what my mom has told me, The bible says not to yok yourself with someone with that religion, Because it says that they worship satan. And if someone worships god and is friends with a person who worships satan, then the person who worships god is more likely to sway to the other side.

I don’t know if my reply makes any sense. I hope it does, but im not that good at explaining things.

You are mostly wrongly accused because most of the Wiccans that you see on the news are splashed with pentagrams, black eyeliner, and generally everything that is going to make your average suburbanite with an IQ of 100 think that they ARE devil worshipers.

This is because Wicca is full of attention seeking ego whores who are in the “religion” to fill an empty hole in their lives/psyche/time between methadone treatments. I can count the decent Wiccans that I have met over 17 years in the Craft (I counted last year as my last) on one hand.

The community that I was a part of has a reputation for being particularly horrible, but the religion was the breeding ground for all of the terrible human behaviour and general lack of courtesy that I have seen during that long period of time. Wicca is nothing more than a live action D&D party which has branched out into real life.

If you are in it to meet people, take the few friends that you have met and get out before you get sucked in any further. Just take my word for it - it isn’t worth your time. It may feel like it now, but in the long run you’ll thank me.

Best Regards,

Angela West

Wow. I think you just proved why I really hate Wiccans. Thanks!

PS: U R not gud wif teh English. U may want to tik a crs in it k tks byee.