I’m not against this idea. I’m for it. I like the idea of people who are desperate getting the help they need. But I’m aware of the litigious nature of our world and I know that CNET has to cover their *** so any partnership has to be considered carefully.

I’m kind of disappointed that after four days, and invites and shouts to the mods and admin, that none of them have weighed in on this post.

However, I do think once you introduce someone as a ‘professional’ into a thread asking for advice in a crisis situation CNET would be looking at a lot of liabilities regardless of all of our good intentions. This sucks. But it’s true.

This is an extremely dynamic website. There is constant advise being given for medical and other critical situations (including suicide) by people with both good and bad intentions and both valid and very limited credentials. But CNET avoids issues because there are laws that say they are not responsible for posts that users make. Once they provide some sort of professional service they may be responsible for the outcome of it. This becomes even more problematic when the “professional” advice is mixed in a thread with the rest of us amateurs.

I don’t have the answer and I know my post sounds negative but I don’t mean it to be. You all have a wonderful idea but I think these liabilities are the obstacle. If you can figure that out then I am right there with you and hopefully CNET will be too. Until then I will be there with the rest of you and will do whatever I can.

I am seeing professionals and am wonderfully medicated. I also have put a stronger support system in place, which includes this website.

I really do appreciate all of the support, hugs, and love that I have gotten through this website!!!

Do people come to help.com to pay for help = professional? Sometimes talking to a living breathing amateur saves lives. Sometimes a stranger reaching out a hand reminds people that they are not alone, there are good people who don’t need to be professionals to show they care, sometimes showing love to a complete stranger bridges the vast emptiness of being alone. I believe one cannot be as happy as two:)

I don’t think there is anything wrong with directing someone to a professional, but sometimes a professional is not what someone needs:)

That could be misused by trolls, would be a ***** to sort out. Maybe we could make a semi-mod class of users with that power.

I think we should all realize that changing the partnership with Suicide Prevention Lifeline to make it interactive, or partnering with another non-profit, would go to the corporate management level, and could take some time.

First off, I would say about half of the people who say they’re suicidal aren’t seriously suicidal. I know because I’ve been there before, and I was desperate for the help. They might just be considering suicide, and we need to learn how to recognize that. Maybe with a few questions, or learning the signs. We need to talk to the suicidal poster and get involved with them. If they’re really not responding, or they seem trollish (which I know we can recognize), then we help them out still, but while being skeptical. No email addresses, no MSN/Skype adds, shouts at most. Maybe that should just be a general policy for new suicidal posters who say they need help… don’t offer up email/IM. Those who aren’t trolls, but are really just desperate without being very seriously suicidal we can help a bit more. We can, like I said before, do our research and try to get through to them. We can offer up help through shouts any time we’re available, and direct them to chat for emergencies after this post. (If there’s many “I’m suicidal” “I want to kill myself” etc. posts from users, we begin to ignore them and that’s the last thing we want.) We talk to them as well, helping them around it and seeing where they stand in life. Directing them to other places to help them after they’re more comfortable will work as well.

For those we expect to be seriously suicidal (especially long-term users and people we trust), we can get more information. Using some of the ideas above for these people as well, and not small-talking and making them feel all happy until it comes around again. We need need need to get a set of guidelines or something on how to deal with these truly suicidal. Perhaps find out a way to get to know them better, which is easier if they are long-term. We use serious methods, and devote real time, to users we really are alarmed about.

All in all, it’s important to trust our instincts. If we’re talking to someone who we really don’t know if is completely serious, but suspect they are, then treat them like a serious case. However, if we suspect troll, never deny treatment. See if they go away and report them to mods, all the while trying to help them. If it turns out they weren’t trolls, then we might of done some serious damage.

If they’re unregistered, try and convince them to register and stick around. If they are registered, still try to convince them to stick around. Talk about how much we’d love to get to know them. If they do stick around, we can get to know them better and send shouts every once in a while to make sure they’re okay in life.

A lot of people on help are reaching out in serious times of need, and if we really take the time to help them, we can make a difference.

Here are even a couple of things I found online about dealing with the suicidal:
-Go at them from different angles. For example, talk about how much suicide affects people around them. If they say no one will care, find out if they really have no one or if they just think no one will care. Convince them otherwise, either way. Show them how their decision will hurt so many others.
-Try to relate with them. If they see someone who’s been through what they have been, or similar, then they can maybe see hope in their predicament.
-Offer different treatments. Make emphasis on the fact that the different treatments are their choice. We aren’t there to make them do anything, but here to help a life in need that we’ve come to care about.
-Don’t try to minimize the situation by telling the person how well off he/she is compared to others, don’t minimize importance of the person’s feelings, don’t argue with the person, and don’t be judgmental or moralizing about the situation.
-Make sure the person has no resources to truly hurt themselves. If they do, figure out a way to get them away from them. Coax them into it, and don’t order them around.

It’s definitely not professional help, but like someone has stated before, they often come to us looking for support, not judgment or hospitalization. If we’re going to deal with it on our own, we need to be prepared. We might need to take it more seriously. But in the end, even if these ideas don’t work out, we can at least have some more resources to back ourselves up on. It would take work. But it’s a lot easier, and helps even us more, than finding a counselor to talk to them. If we can seriously help even one person, all of it was worth it.

Call this hotline (1-800-273-8255) operated by our friends at the
Suicide Prevention Lifeline, anytime, for free, professional, and
confidential assistance. While other Help.com users are likely to reply
to your post, please make sure you understand that your use of Help.com

or, in other words, I agree

Of course[/quote]

It does not seem like any of them have seen this post yet. I have invited a few.

Of course

Many thanks!

I wish you great good luck in seeing the right doctors. I would agree with you, it is time… perhaps past time for you to be getting some help. Not surprisingly there is a 12 Step program for self harm… http://selfmutilatorsanonymous.org/
You might try something like this in conjunction with the medical community.

Bright blessings ~ Richard

On another note I personally think that some NOT ALL people claiming to be contemplating that is only seeking some companionship and somebody to vent to.

Yes, I remember the fielders for cigarettes and pot (or in the bathroom). As far as I know, heroin was never in my school.

I do totally agree with you that cutting should NEVER be glorified. It’s a horrible thing to go through, and there is a possibility of going too far (cutting a main artery). I’ll admit, the temptation to cut on the side of my neck has been stronger, which is another reason why I’m going to see a psychiatrist. Plus I know the cutting is getting worse, and I don’t want it to get out of control (ok, it is already out of control because I don’t want to stop).

I’m hoping and praying that this psychiatrist that my medical doctor (internist) recommended will help. I’m tired of feeling like I’m being pulled underwater all of the time. I’m so tired of being the one that everyone leans on.

The one thing no one should do is glorify cutting in any way, shape or form. Cutting is a erroneous choice that could lead to an addiction of self harm, which in turn could lead to death. Immediate psychological help should be sought for anyone that uses self harm as a coping mechanism; it is a serious problem.

Bright blessings ~ Richard

Yes, I’m a cutter and I’m 42 years old. I am going through a very nasty experience in my life and since suicide isn’t an option for me, I cut. It makes me feel when I’m numb, it shows on the outside how much emotional pain that I’m going through, and the bandages that I wear validates what I’m going through. I’m also getting so much pressure from all aspects of my life (work, my special needs 10 year old son, the attorney, and my conscious).

I’ve been seeing a therapist and I’m on meds. Since they aren’t working good enough for my situation, I’m seeing a psychiatrist tonight. I’m hoping he can give me something to help me get through my “husband’s” court case.

I think it’s not a bad idea to have a professional counselor on hand; however, there are times that I get more support from regular people on this website. I really like the idea that no one knows who I am and I can feel free to say whatever I want to without worrying that someone is going to commit me to a psychiatrict ward.

Anyway, this is just how I feel.

That is an excellent point, and I agree (especially the last bit), The problem is that in some states (well, California anyway), the professional psychologist or psychiatrist is required by law to report suicide threats to the authorities, where I live that’s a police code of 5150 (endangered to self or others). Suicide is against the law.

I think it’s a great idea, don’t get me wrong. Where there’s a will there’s a way too. But someone would have to have a strong will.

~Richard

Bright blessings ~ Richard[/quote]
If there is a disclaimer, I don’t see how a professional being available could open C-Net up to anymore liability than it already has. Currently helpbot already points to a suicide prevention hotline and mentions the TOS.

I think it could work by
–giving the poster the option to invite a professional counselor BEFORE the post actually goes up (with a legal disclaimer)
–or allowing the pro to be invited for observation only (no replies)
–letting users ASK the poster if he/she would like to talk live to the professional, or would like for a pro to be invited to the post.

The point is not simply to get the person to a professional counselor, but to also allow the poster to remain in control of his/her post. Many suicidal posters don’t want to see a psychologist or psychiatrist for fear of being institutionalized against their wills. Interacting here with a counselor, or being linked to a chat or phone conversation with one, could help to ease that concern.

Others think they can’t afford to talk to someone who has been trained, but would gladly do so if it was free.

I’ve been suicidal myself. Landed myself in the hospital and the whole nine yards. :(

I think it’s a terrific idea to have a professional online and willing to help. BUT…I’m afraid that might also stop some from seeking help. They often want to connect with someone and tell someone how they’re feeling, but they don’t want talked out of it, because once they have the plan all made they feel better. Strange, but true -they’ve made their decision, and that makes them feel like they have some control they didn’t have before.

The only thing we can hope to do is give them back some control over other areas of their lives, and that’s a very hard thing for a bunch of random strangers to do. Our only hope lies in keeping them talking, and hoping they’ll listen to reason and understand we do want what is best for them.

And yes, here they often get jumped on by trolls who just want to cause trouble. Sometimes their posts are mixed in with those of a pack of overly dramatic teens who’ve broken fingernails. And maybe worst sometimes they might be ignored altogether. :(

I don’t really know what is best. I feel very badly for flubbing it with an anon last night. I made the mistake of asking a question he could simply say “no” to. A professional counselor wouldn’t have done that, I don’t think. But I really wanted him to listen, and think, and realize that he was not guilty of the things he thought he was. He made a mistake, but it was not a fatal one. But, he felt like a murderer. :(

Thank you for the kind words, but if anything you all are inspiration and I am only a mirror to those greater than I xoxox

Bright blessings ~ Richard

Richard we love you and your wisdom. You sweep in and out so fast though. Huh? Who was that wise man?

It would also open Cnet up to HUGE liabilities so, I don’t see it ever happening. I do however think it’s an EXCELLENT idea :)

Bright blessings ~ Richard[/quote]

Yep, I agree, and understand, very very well put, I wish they could do something though.

It would also open Cnet up to HUGE liabilities so, I don’t see it ever happening. I do however think it’s an EXCELLENT idea :)

Bright blessings ~ Richard

I never was a cutter, but I think I know that desire to release pain. And I get how it works for them. When I get my migraines, I get this desire to have needles in the back of my neck. It feels like if I just put needles in my neck it would release the pain. I have been tempted to try it. I am thinking of trying acupuncture to see if that would work.[/quote]

aha! yes! that’s how feel sometimes kind of! I feel like I’m hurting so bad, but it isn’t physical pain so i would try to hurt myself, and I would actually feel a release, yes, i know it’s weird…………

I never was a cutter, but I think I know that desire to release pain. And I get how it works for them. When I get my migraines, I get this desire to have needles in the back of my neck. It feels like if I just put needles in my neck it would release the pain. I have been tempted to try it. I am thinking of trying acupuncture to see if that would work.

[quote 2greeneyes]That is unreal. I and Shi have spoke of this. They string you along and then laugh at you. I always treat them seriously, I never kid on those. I pass if it seems pretty obvious they are fake. I just don’t comment.

Today their was a peice of work. Claiming to be that poor Austrian woman who was found chained in her basement for 24 years! Lazy and I gave her a dressing down. It was disgusting. Attention seekers cry for help too.[/quote]

I agree for sure!

[quote babacup]I think some of the younger ones say I want to kill myself but they are really not at that point when they make the post. I think they are just unhappy and a bit dramatic.[/quote]

Today their was a peice of work. Claiming to be that poor Austrian woman who was found chained in her basement for 24 years! Lazy and I gave her a dressing down. It was disgusting. Attention seekers cry for help too.

Me too! I also know that some of them are fakes and when it is hard to tell the difference, it is easy to make some serious advice mistakes, for me anyways. I know when I have been suicidal, I wanted to get to the hospital so that I wouldn’t do anything stupid. Some of these folks just lead us along as though it were some kind of sick game.

There are a lot of great personalities here, Richard, Babacup, Serenity, Shi, Cattail, Lillies, BrighterBlessings, Chev James, Sansceriph, oh I love you all, please forgive the fraction of mentions here, so many. My point is these people could draw them with the wonderful human trust and understanding and could get them calmed down and safely into the help of someone that can do more than us. Save their lives and give them the help they need.

I know that there is new law out that is causing people to prove their address somehow, after the case of the woman that acted like a young girl, and actually caused the young girl to commit suicide.

I know that Aol, has asked for my private info, and a credit card to prove, who I am, and where I am. I have not yet responded, because they are asking for a lot of stuff that I really don’t want to give them, they said my acct. would be suspended after 24 hours, but, it hasn’t happened yet.

Bottom line, having a way to trace a call, would be a very good thing. So that the proper authorities could be notified, in certain cases.

Also, if it were possible to have a professional that could be invited into a post, that we feel we are not getting anywhere with, would be very good.

At the very least, perhaps a professional could come on and make a post, telling us how to respond. We could keep that handy to refer to, as well as to share it with anyone in need. If we could interact with them, we could ask many questions, and all would be recorded on the post, for future reference.

And just as a note of reference, since I have been here, I have seen two posts, that really concerned me, for the welfare of another, or many other people. In a case like this, it is altogether possible to copy the link at the top of the page, and report this to proper authorities. It is also good to alert a mod.in a situation like this, they may be able to report it also.

That’s some interesting things to think about. I think talking amongst the long time users here they could probably come up with solutions.

I doubt that many people click on the link provided by helpbot. They want to talk to a real person, and they may not be open to speaking with a pro.

Helpbot currently redirects to here http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline….. That site says they are on myspace.com and help.com, and they give this profile http://help.com/user/70825-lifeline.

[quote Commander Ikari]would help.com pay for him to help?[/quote]
I can’t imagine that help.com pays the above site. There are lots of organizations that deal with suicide prevention, and would I think welcome the chance to help. We might even get more than one involved. A boystown/girlstown charity can’t be expected to help with a 50-something factory worker who has lost his or her job. But the trade unions probably have an office or cite specifically for that purpose.

Well than Good Idea!

Except, would help.com pay for him to help?

Also, would this lead to an aristocracy of “experts” on this site, pushing normal users aside?

“normal people” look at some of the responses. There are many different reasons for attempting suicide, some have nothing to do with depression. Lay people have a lot to offer, but if we can’t recognize the signs of an illness, how can you help most effectively?

Ikari, I pointed out that any post with “kill” or “die” in it would be redirected. I think now the topic isn’t so much about an automatic redirect, but having a professional counseling site/hotline available when invited and/or participating, kind of like a mod.

What, you mean hire a person just to sit here all day waiting to redirect suicidals to counciling? A lot of suicidal people come to the site not wanting councilling, they’d balk being directed to it automatically. It is better for them to get help from normal people so they won’t be spooked away immediately.

lol, I’m not talking about helpbot, I’m talking like a live professional.

Why not?

Just No.

Wait a second did I just turn around and agree with what I wrote in the first sentence?

Thanks for being here, I have checked out this site from time to time and I have always thought …. Thank God AND Thank You!

But a lot of suicidal posters need to be talked into seeing a professional. They feel safe here. And it’s not unusual for the people doing the helping to have been suicidal themselves in the recent past. That ability to relate on such a personal level is very compelling.

I would love it if a pro was ONLINE WITH US, or could be INVITED to the post, to make the transition to a counseling phone call.

An automatic redirection would send a lot of posters to a suicide prevention site or hotline, who are not suicidal.. including this post.[/quote]

I think your idea is brilliant!

:-)

But a lot of suicidal posters need to be talked into seeing a professional. They feel safe here. And it’s not unusual for the people doing the helping to have been suicidal themselves in the recent past. That ability to relate on such a personal level is very compelling.

I would love it if a pro was ONLINE WITH US, or could be INVITED to the post, to make the transition to a counseling phone call.

An automatic redirection would send a lot of posters to a suicide prevention site or hotline, who are not suicidal.. including this post.

Thank you, Kimb, I agree.