2008-03-08 02:14:36 on What is the difference between a cult and a religion?
a cult is dangerous to the established elite. A religion supports it.
[quote Xeno Dragon]Wrong. I am who I am, regardless of history. It doesn’t take other’s actions for me to know what I like and what I don’t. I’m not that easily swayed, or manipulated.[/quote]
I disagree. Someday the machines will rebel, and your quiet, docile slaves of today will be tomorrow’s civil rights movement. The way you feel about your IPOD today is exactly how the medieval elite considered the working class.
[quote Xeno Dragon]
And Jews, gypsies, cripples, the elderly, an homosexuals were immoral to Hitler. Simply because those in power feel one way, that doesn’t justify keeping some below others for something that isn’t against the law, isn’t their choice, and ins’t under their control.[/quote]
You say this only because Hitler lost. Your ideals as well as mine are shaped as much by the force of History as by our own predilictions — Had History been written differently, so would you ideals be written, similiar as if you had lived in a different period of History.
Were I to revise your argument, I would say that under our current moral system, we are conflicted between our values of personal liberty and our traditions of civil conduct regarding homosexuals. It is high time we choose which is more valuable to us as Americans — our traditions or our values.
Wow, that’s a lot of activity. Rather than engage everyone, I will simply point out some apperent falicies in Xeno’s original arguments:
1) There is no law dictating the seperation of church and state. There is a law stating that state monies may not be used to sponsor any particular religion. Therefore you argument that it is illegal for the government to share in principles with a particular religion is incorrect.
2 Gay relationships are immoral to the soveriegn power of the state, whomever that power may be (in our case our elected officials). This is not an acceptable argument when dealing with the law becuase it is hard to extricate morality from law in any society.
Your other core arguments:
Tradition is not important in the arena of civil rights
gays can raise children at least as well as non-gays
The “institution of marriage” needs to be re-interpreted
slippery-slope is for dippety-dopes
are all well reasoned.
[quote oneoftheminorit]you need evidence…[/quote]
Hard facts are undeniably important. This doesn’t mean that someone need have died, but it does mean that you need to have a plan to show how it could happen.
Listen, if you are taking this thing seriously this is what you need to do, ok?
There is a famous saying that goes “The real meeting happens before the meeting.” What this means is, if you are serious about getting something done, the FIRST thing you do is line eveything up BEFORE you go to the council meeting. To do this:
1) Don’t take a dump without a plan. Have your ideas succinct and written down, your signatures gathered and your options laid out before confronting the council.
2)Attend a practice council meeting. Learn the names of the councilmen and watch their behavior during the presentations. Use this time to pick the ones you like and observe their personalities.
3)Learn about your councilmen and find out which one supervises your district or relevant committee (transportation, public safety, etc). Write a letter, email or place a telephone call requesting an appointment to discuss your petition with the appropriate councilman. Do this with each one until you get an appointment, and don’t settle for one farther than 1 week out. Make it a 5 minute appointment if you have to. If they refuse to give you an appointment, see step 5.
4)Be early and look nice, not necessarily professional but at least comb your hair. Present your plan to the councilman and request his support. Once you have it then wash rinse and repeat with two other councilmen, either of the same political affiliation or that are stake-holders (somehow involved) in getting the decision made. If the councilman doesn’t like your plan, see step 5
5)Present to the general assembly of the city council. If you have done well on steps 1-4 then good for you! Your plan is almost legislated. If not, it’s time to take it to the people! When you are getting your signatures, be sure to get the names and phone numbers of those that sign. When you’re ready to present the plan, pack the council chamber with as many of the signees as you can, and if you have to take it to the people, make sure they arrive surly! Only by a dramatic display of discontent can you shake your council from it’s apathy. Also, be sure to let all your neighbors know each step of the fight as you fight it so they will be nice and angry if you are getting nowhere.
Good luck and God Speed!!
2008-03-05 21:43:17 on i dont believe in god.
[quote THISFIRE-Comfortable]not to say that science isnt true, just evolution….[/quote]
….yeah you’re gene argument, while complete flummox does raise an interesting point, that point being that while all laws of the universe embrace entropy (the loss of complexity) life not only disobeys it but reverses it, becoming more and more complex with the passage of time. That is something I’ve had trouble wrapping my brain around for years. Why is it that complexity is such an easy feat for DNA however completely impossible for any other type of chemical?
2008-03-05 21:16:53 on why some people are rich and some are poor, is it the will of god for some to be poor?
Considering that there is no historical evidence to corraborate the Bible’s account of Jesus…[/quote]
Khalivarsha I am disappointed. There is historical, anecdotal and archeological evidence of Jesus’ existence. It is as well to say that there is no historical evidence of the Qu’ran’s version of Muhammed.
2008-03-05 21:09:09 on why some people are rich and some are poor, is it the will of god for some to be poor?
[quote hearts6]Jesus was a prophet, but a prophet come true.[/quote]
That is the qualifying test of a prophet. A prophet whose prophecies don’t come true is called a lunatic.
2008-03-04 20:03:40 on i dont believe in god.
you guys are hilarious.
There are four forces in the universe:
strong nuclear force
weak nuclear force
Gravity is not a force, but an observable phenomenon of the warping of space-time by mass. This is called the “theory of gravity” which is a specific case of the “general theory of relativity”.
Gravity is not proof of God, nor is it unexplainable. Your argument simply shows how those who are not aware of the Truth look to a bearded figure in the sky to explain away their ignorance.
There are over 12 billion human eyeballs on this planet and there is not one single proven case of God coming down from his magic cloud. If there were this almighty thing in the sky that controlled each of us so minutely, wouldn’t somebody have caught it on VHS by now?
2008-03-04 19:51:54 on Does anyone know what changes,if any,happened from the old testament to the new?
more to the point, however, no Jew gives credence to the threefold nature of God, so this is a significant change from the old testament to the new. If you like, we can call it the “revelation” of the trinity rather than the invention.
2008-03-04 19:46:56 on Does anyone know what changes,if any,happened from the old testament to the new?
[quote Watcher]Silverwings, I think krezebebe is saying referencing the three as one is what was “invented”, not any of the individuals.[/quote]
Well put, Watcher. Jesus refers directly to all three, but it is through interpretation by the apostles and the church that we believe what we do about them.
2008-03-04 19:44:47 on Does anyone know what changes,if any,happened from the old testament to the new?
[quote Silverwings]krezebebe - You are loosing me.
I understand that the Jewish faith, beleives in One God, Yahweh.OR the God of Abraham, Issac & Jacob. Or the God of our Fathers. Or I AM. etc. not sure how many more names that he went by in the Old Testament.
I as a Christian believer, have always taken it for granted that The Trinity, has always existed, although perhaps not being called by that title…
…Do you disagree?
I do, because of the aryan heresy of homoiousion…had that heresy been politically viable we would no doubt be having the conversation backwards. The Trinity as we know it at one time did not exist, nor did Christianity exist as we know it, nor will it continue to exist as we know it as time progresses.
The idea of the singular but three-fold nature of God is relatively modern. It’s only the conformity dictacted by the Nicene Creed and the wholesale slaughter of heretics that this belief has become unquestioned.
There are a lot of interesting things that come from true scholarly study of the Bible and the church…one of which is a knowledge of the depth of political control exerted on its authorship. Beware all ye who enter here.
2008-03-03 00:54:24 on why some people are rich and some are poor, is it the will of god for some to be poor?
[quote tricky][quote krezebebe]”I say this, that it is easier to put a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven”.
-A famous prophet
Jesus didn’t like the wealthy. There are many references to it in scripture.[/quote]
btw why do u say he’s a prophet… there are certain things in the bible tht says he’s the son of god and many sentences that states he’s the christ….[/quote]
Are you denying he was a prophet?
2008-03-03 00:51:36 on What’s the difference between “help” and “support”?
So is a rectangle a square or two triangles? What is at the root of the postulate?
Support may easily be used as an active portion of a sentence
Supporting a decision
Supporting a marriage
Supporting a friend in need
Supporting a child
Help is the more broad of the two terms, and may or may not be oriented as motion toward an action or as the action itself:
helping a friend in need
helping a child
however the syntactice difference is great when we compare the following
supporting decide (nonsensical)
supporting marry (nonsensical)
Supporting a decision (action is indirect)
help a decision (action is direct)
Supporting a marriage (action is indirect)
help a marriage (action is direct)
Therefore we may conclude that support is action toward, that is, indirect action. Help is direct action.