chev.jame's reply history at Help.com

Next question: suppose you marry this guy, get pregnant again, and yet again he pressures you for an abortion?

What then?

[/quote]Don’t you see the paradox? How can humans have free will to do what they want and believe what they want when, according to you and every other believer out there, god is all knowing, all seeing, and has a plan for everyone? Wouldn’t that mean that humans had no free will, but were acting out a script meticulously planned by a creator?

Moreover, if this was true that would mean that god planned and created evil, god created sin, the devil, and hell. This ‘god’ was responsible for all the evil that exists. so then would not the most evil thing in existence be god, not the devil?

If you disagree, I invite you to explain why I am wrong.[/quote]

No paradox. Imagine if you were a father, and you had a “plan” for your son, e.g., send him to college. But the son, exercising free will, decided that he wanted to be a drug dealer instead.

Now, let’s take the analogy a little further. You have this son. You are all powerful and all knowing. You could MAKE him love you and obey you.

But would it be the same? Would giving a love potion to a woman to make her love you be the same as her loving you out of her own free will?

Having free will means that you can make the wrong choices or the right choices. Some wrong choices are so wrong as to be evil.

And, if there was no evil in the world, could there be good? How would you define hot without being able to define cold?

Script? There’s a plan, yes, but we write our own script as to how to fulfill it or not.

Now, how do you get these beings known as humans to “be the best they can be?”

Eliminate all suffering?

Eliminate that thing you call evil?

Now, if you were God, and you wanted people to be at their best, would it be best if you bombastically announced your existence, or remained somewhat in the shadows to see how people would exercise their free will?

What would be your plan for humanity? Paradise on earth . . . or make earth a “test” to see who would make the right choices under pressure?

Now, assuming you have this place you called heaven . . . what kind of people would you want to admit into it?

And keep out?

Hmmmm. Interesting discussions.

Perhaps, just to make things a little more interesting, some of the atheist posters could answer these questions:

1. If you were God, would you reveal Yourself to all people? Why or why not?

2. What would you do differently from what God is doing already?

Simplest answer: some people got greedier.

[quote courtybubble]Its all relative though isnt it.
just because ive never lived in a muslim country where not wearing a burkha would get me stoned to death doesnt mean i should be happy about people belligerantly shoving their religion down my throat.[/quote]

Shoving religion down people’s throats doesn’t work–something that the Muslim world has yet to learn. I hope I added some perspective to the perception about it happening in the USA and other Western countries. You can accept or reject it in our society, but not so in others.

To phrase it another way, how is religion being forced down people’s throats where you live?

Divorce is pretty drastic action. Yes, if your husband is just a philandering jerk, then you should get a divorce. But IF you have contributed to this situation by chiseling away at your husband’s pride or sense of feeling loved, then you also bear some responsiblity for the affair. If you were habitually unpleasant and critical, then you got the expected result: an affair. I don’t care who rants or raves about there not being an excuse for adultery, the simple fact is this: men go where they are made to feel worthwhile and loved. It may not be right, and it may not be justified, but it’s the simple truth.

DID you contribute to the situation? You must be honest with yourself. And IF your husband was a decent man before this, and IF you love him, then you need to do something about it! It seems like you are doing NOTHING but fretting and brooding over it. For heaven’s sake, take some kind of action to save your marriage–to reclaim YOUR husband.

IF you love your husband, and IF you still WANT him, then tell him so! And try to show it!

[quote Keckers][quote chev.jame]You think religion is being forced down your throat where you live? Come to a Muslim country like the one I’m living in now. Eat an ice cream cone in public during Ramadan and watch how fast you end up in jail! “Blaspheme” the Prophet Mohammed or Islam and see how many years you do in prison!

Be glad you live in a Christian country where you can practice your religious beliefs or no beliefs at all.

Be glad . . . because you have no idea of what religious intolerance is all about until you come to a Muslim country![/quote]

Eating in public during Ramadan in Kuwait gets you a KD 300 fine (around $1,000) and jail. I don’t exactly call that religious tolerance.

Mosques wake up the entire population with prayers over loudspeakers at 3:30 in the morning, whether they are Muslim or not.

Desecrating the Quran gets you prison.

Do these things in Saudi Arabia or Iran and it will get you the death penalty. Some of you must have led sheltered lives when you were in the Middle East!

I went to Pakistan, by the way, to free Christians imprisoned under that country’s blasphemy laws. I suppose none of you had any problems there, either.

Come on, people! You cannot deny what’s going on over here in the Middle East! You think you’re getting religion forced down your throat in the USA, but you don’t know what “forcing” really means! In the US or Canada you can eat on Ash Wednesday when everyone else is fasting, and you don’t go to jail. It’s totally different with Islam. Their rules are enforced on everyone else. You’ve got it good in North America. You can worship or not worship, observe the rituals or not observe them. You can burn the Bible, if you so desire. But you cannot burn the Quran in a Muslim country without the severest of repercussion.

I’m pointing this out to help you get a more balanced perspective.

Jail?
Srsly.
Wow that’s new.
Never happened in all my 17 years of being there.
Usually people just didn’t eat outside of malls/foodcourts just to respect those who are fasting.
Even though most who where didn’t give a flying peanut.
Surely you emphasize pour le dramatic reactions.
:P[/quote]

[quote Abba Zabba][quote chev.jame]I’ve never met an atheist who wasn’t angry at the God he claimed to not believe in. Agnostics are emotionally neutral. Atheists are carrying a grudge against God, and think they are hurting Him by denying His existence.

[/quote]I am an agnostic atheist.[/quote]

I did not know that it was possible to be an agnostic and an atheist at the same time. Perhaps you can be an atheist today, and an agnostic tomorrow, but I do not see how you can be both an atheist and agnostic at the same time. What would make you vacillate between the two?

[quote fractal.scatter][quote chev.jame][quote Abba Zabba][quote chev.jame]The agnostics are searching for answers . . . and the atheists have been hurt by something, and are actually angry at the God Whom they claim doesn’t exist.[/quote]

Eh, no, because atheists don’t believe in god, or a god. How can you be angry in something that you don’t think exists.[/quote]

I’ve never met an atheist who wasn’t angry at the God he claimed to not believe in. Agnostics are emotionally neutral. Atheists are carrying a grudge against God, and think they are hurting Him by denying His existence.

I haven’t seen one exception to that rule.[/quote]

Wouldn’t it be irrational to carry a grudge against something they (atheists) do not beleive in?[/quote]

You tell me! I’m reminded of a child who says he no longer believes in Santa Claus because he didn’t get the toy he wanted! Atheists have a vehemence about them. And every single one that I have ever encountered had lost a loved one to death, and hated God for letting it happen.

For that and that and all that, however, I think it’s OK to be angry at God. In fact, I have quite a few questions I want to ask Him one day!

You don’t know what kind of personal hell your father went through. He may have felt he had no choice but to leave and “draw fire” away from his family.

That’s the thing about making judgments.

And remember this: everybody is fighting a battle that no one else knows about!

P.S. How about finding him and extending the olive branch?

You are trying to piece together a broken dream.

Dream a new dream . . . don’t show up in Texas at this guy’s doorstep!

[quote Abba Zabba][quote chev.jame]The agnostics are searching for answers . . . and the atheists have been hurt by something, and are actually angry at the God Whom they claim doesn’t exist.[/quote]

Eh, no, because atheists don’t believe in god, or a god. How can you be angry in something that you don’t think exists.[/quote]

I’ve never met an atheist who wasn’t angry at the God he claimed to not believe in. Agnostics are emotionally neutral. Atheists are carrying a grudge against God, and think they are hurting Him by denying His existence.

I haven’t seen one exception to that rule.

If you’re trying for a baby with some “new guy” and you’re not married, you have a bigger problem than something stuck up your fanny.

[quote m03aleig]I am working towards my college degree and working on his business with him (which is already 6 years old and well established, making a good profit) allows me a flexible position and a job I love. So it seemed to make sense.

And I don’t have doubts he’s “the one” exactly, I just want him to be “there” more than he is…and can’t seem to make him understand. Or to make myself understand maybe I should need him less?[/quote]

Well, I’d say that you do, indeed, have doubts! And legitimate ones, too!

Why would you want to marry some guy who doesn’t want to communicate with you . . . listen to you? Why would you want to marry some guy who marginalizes your feelings, who wants to shut you up rather than hear what you have to say?

Tell me . . . did swine flu wipe out all of the other men in your town? Is this guy the only one who’s left?

Kid–you’ve got red flags waving all over the place. HEED them! Get OUT of this arrangement!